Dallas Love Field Expansion?

SWAMECH

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Apr 26, 2005
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I told you all this was coming, and here it is kicking off. More gates at Love Field is coming folks. And all these locals living so near the airport, well, you all decided to do so all the while it was an airport when you moved here. Stop the complaining and move somewhere else if you are so tired of the noise, because this airport is going to grow, just as I said it would almost 10 years ago. Here we go folks...


 
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SWAMECH

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Apr 26, 2005
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Economic numbers are too big to ignore. Jobs-jobs-jobs. Taxes-taxes-taxes. Income and $$$ flowing into local market should prevail. May take a while but Transportation and infrastructure benefits will outweigh noise complaints. Adding a small amount of gates is nothing compared what the previous size of Love Field was when it was more than triple the gates now. I say get approval for 20 more gates but open in small increments at a time, say 5 at a time. Time for Southwest to spread some more wings and grow more in big-D. And no folks, we will not go to DFW, way too costly and not convenient or efficient to the Downtown Dallas market for business travelers. Here we grow Dallas Love Field again!!! 4.8 "B"illion with 5-1 return speaks volumes to the city and local markets, and that was just for one year (2021) and it's still going up until we get clear of the pandemic era...


 

eolesen

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Jul 23, 2003
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Yeah, no. The Five Party Agreement is binding. Undoing will require getting Fort Worth, DFW, and AA to agree to it. And WN.

What's an uncomfortable fact for some to accept is that Love Field works for WN as-is because there's no meaningful competition and no congestion.

Adding more gates guarantees that WN won't be able to keep 90% of the gates and departures.

First of all, AA and DL will sue for meaningful access, and they'll likely win.

UA will want back in. Who knows about B6 or F9, but I can't imagine they'd ignore an opportunity like that at a capacity restricted airport.
 
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SWAMECH

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Apr 26, 2005
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I know about the 5 party agreement, but like I said, this very well could be the beginning of the opener in works. Not saying it'll go thru for sure, but I damn sure new this was coming after they all seen the results of the W/A getting removed. Now, we shall see what the city and SWA looks to do after seeing all the economic benefits to COD, Dallas Love Field, the flying public, and of course all the local businesses as well as jobs, taxes $$$ coming in as well as going out to other entities. Never say never E, and I say that also with, never say never to International Flights one day at Dallas Love Field.
 
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eolesen

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It took 40 years of arguing to get to the Five Party agreement. Don't hold your breath waiting for a new agreement.
 
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SWAMECH

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Apr 26, 2005
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More like 40 years of growth and planning. The W/A fight only took, was it 10 years? The next one will take half that (IMO)
 
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SWAMECH

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Apr 26, 2005
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Momentum is picking up on expansion in Dallas areas. Starting the talks now to get ready for 2025 when even more W/A restrictions go bye-bye. Will SWA look at putting flights in at DFW? Will they look at Alliance or McKinney?? Or will they be better of just to add 10 more gates at LF. At least in 2025 SWA will NOT have to close any gates at LF IF they were to decide to start DFW flights (very doubtful). But I do see SWA looking at DFW at least for beefing up the international rout system. AA would hate to see that and might bend a little to the 10 added gates at LF instead. Hmmmmm...

Remember; Never say NEVER!!!




A little bird told me, :)

 
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SWAMECH

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Interesting article mentioning SWA may go to DFW in 2025 when the final restrictions are lifted from the W/A going away. I do believe SWA will of course look at DFW, but I also have been told they are also eye balling the McKinney Airport a bit further North in Collin County. Not saying they won't do DFW, but it may all be up to what type of flights and number of flights McKinney's airport would allow. I do know that if international becomes a key factor that DFW will get the vote and even then, they still may decide to go to McKinney for a secondary North Texas Airport. Never say never as SWA was aligned to start McKinney flights back when they were still strapped in by the W/A. Once that was lifted, they focused totally on expansion at LF first and foremost. It will get interesting going forward into 2025 to say the least...


 
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eolesen

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Does this mean that you're finally admitting that Love Field won't be expanded?

Southwest is already operating at O'Hare along with Midway, so it only makes sense that they would move to DFW once the local restrictions are lifted. The expansion restriction at DAL doesn't expire.

Also, don't forget American still holds the base lease for those gates at Love Field, so I'm sure they'll be back, too.

Looks like the consent decree that kept them out of Love Field expires in 2023, which is now less than a year away.
 
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SWAMECH

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Apr 26, 2005
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Does this mean that you're finally admitting that Love Field won't be expanded?

Southwest is already operating at O'Hare along with Midway, so it only makes sense that they would move to DFW once the local restrictions are lifted. The expansion restriction at DAL doesn't expire.

Also, don't forget American still holds the base lease for those gates at Love Field, so I'm sure they'll be back, too.

Looks like the consent decree that kept them out of Love Field expires in 2023, which is now less than a year away.
Yes E. I was waiting for that one. Since the final restrictions would be lifted in 2025 It may be more efficient to go to DFW and more than likely due to the International capabilities as that restriction will still remain. Now if they could get that restriction removed for LF there would have to be expansion done.
I promise to eat crow if I have too when that time comes :)

Here's a little more on the McKinney Texas Airport possibly opening a new terminal and starting commercial flights right here in North Texas. Never say never. LF is only 8-10 air miles from DFW and McKinney is a good 35 miles give or take:




From the DFW Business Journal--McKinney Airport expansion:

Commercial service out of McKinney National Airport would create thousands of jobs and potentially generate more than $1 billion dollars of economic impact for the city by 2040, according to a recently completed study.
A committee of city and regional leaders responsible continues to explore the possibility of calling for a bond election so the city can build a $300 million commercial terminal at the airport, which currently offers general and corporate aviation services. The airport would provide an alternative to Dallas Fort Worth International and Dallas Love Field. In addition to McKinney, it would serve other fast-growing communities to the north of Dallas including Plano and Frisco.
As part of the bond committee's deliberations, the city and Sky Synergy, an aviation consulting firm assisting with the project, hired Vancouver-based InterVISTAS Consulting to perform an economic impact study.
The study found that the airport would create 1,040 direct jobs in 2026 when the commercial terminal would potentially open. Commercial operations would support more than 3,200 total jobs. Total wages would amount to $265 million. Overall, the airport would generate $850 million in economic activity and $115 million in tax revenue, including about $5 million for McKinney.
In a more conservative model, which assumes McKinney won't have a crew base or other large employee pools associated with the airlines, the total economic impact would be $615 million. The study estimates the airport would create 2,780 jobs in the less aggressive scenario providing $207 million in total wages. Tax revenue would total $77 million, including an estimated $4 million for McKinney.
Both scenarios assume 533,000 enplanements when the commercial terminal opens.
If McKinney moves forward with the project, city officials expect the airport's commercial terminal to debut with four gates offering four to 20 flights a day. Eventually, the airport would have 16 gates and be able to offer as many as 40 daily departures by 2040.
According to the study, the total economic impact of the airport could grow to $840 million by 2040 in the conservative scenario. With more aggressive assumptions, the airport's economic impact would exceed $1.16 billion. The study forecasts the airport having 820,000 enplanements in 2040.
McKinney does not have any agreements in place with any of the airlines. Assistant City Manager Barry Shelton said a range of carriers have expressed interest, which served as the catalyst for getting the project moving.
The bond committee will make a recommendation to the City Council in the coming months about whether to call for a bond election and if so, how much to look to raise. Shelton said the city will look to get between $60 million and $100 million in federal grants, with bond money covering the remainder of the costs.
Should the city decide to move ahead, officials will be betting that North Texas will continue to grow and demand will exist to support a third airport. They would also be assuming that enough people would want to travel out to McKinney so that airport revenue would allow the city to pay back the debt service in a reasonable amount of time.
"This is not a 'build-it-and-they-will-come' scenario," said Edward Shelswell-White, chief customer officer of Sky Synergy. "It's not a slam dunk. Even though we think the business case is there and the interest is there, it still requires doing things the right way."
The airport will need to provide the "right experience" and attract the "right customer" so the airlines will be confident in providing service, Shelswell-White said.
Bill Cox, principal of commercial real estate firm Carey Cox Co. and a member of the bond committee, said travel behavior will be the key factor in whether commercial aviation succeeds at McKinney.
"If we can change people's travel habits, this works," Cox said. "If It's not attractive enough to change your travel habits, then we've got a problem."
The bond committee will meet again on Nov. 9. The committee needs to make a recommendation to the City Council by mid-February in order for a bond election to be called in time for the May 2023 election.
 

eolesen

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Jul 23, 2003
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I think it's reasonable to expect McKinney/KTKI to evolve like Paine Field in the SEA area has -- a few flights. They'll need to extend the runways -- 7,000 ft is good enough for E170's, but just above the minimums for for a larger single-aisle aircraft like an A320 or B737.

I'm more interested to see what happens with eVTOL's. McKinney could be an interesting market for taking a short air-taxi hop to DFW or DAL. Same with Sherman and other places like Wichita Falls, Tyler and Waco. Those markets are little too short to support a 50 seat RJ, but might be able to support an air taxi model with 10-15 seats a couple times a day.
 
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SWAMECH

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Apr 26, 2005
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I think it's reasonable to expect McKinney/KTKI to evolve like Paine Field in the SEA area has -- a few flights. They'll need to extend the runways -- 7,000 ft is good enough for E170's, but just above the minimums for for a larger single-aisle aircraft like an A320 or B737.

I'm more interested to see what happens with eVTOL's. McKinney could be an interesting market for taking a short air-taxi hop to DFW or DAL. Same with Sherman and other places like Wichita Falls, Tyler and Waco. Those markets are little too short to support a 50 seat RJ, but might be able to support an air taxi model with 10-15 seats a couple times a day.
Good point. Paine Field would be a great example of what McKinney could be indeed. And yes a new added longer runway is in the plans for McKinney IF they get clearance for take off (sorry bout that :) ) But, they are already planning for McKinney to be as big as 16 gates and up to 40 flights per day, but as we all know SWA could easily result in up to 10 flights per day per gate.

Taxi hoping is interesting too, taking folks from the outreaching cities into the larger airports to have better choices and options for non-stops and multiple flights all day.