Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

Don't hold your breath Piedmont. I don't think it's that simple.

That rings a bell. There was something you said a while back that made me think you were a westie, I can't remember what it was. Just can't put my finger on it. So, I'll just ask you on your honor. Are you now, or have you ever been based in PHX or LAS?

 

[EastUS1]

Whew!!! Good thing you paid attention in your Contract Law class at Harvard....NOT!!! What is insane is a group of people who have now become self proclaimed experts on contract language and blow off the people with the actual degrees and experience to make such a determination. Arrogance at it's absolute finest.

Aw shucks pilgrim; I'd think it more just a simple exercise in critical reading. Your actual mileage may vary, and you've certainly no need of my blessing in order to let others do your "thinking" for you.

"Arrogance at it's absolute finest."...? I suppose that equally applies to all who clearly saw the huge holes in how LOA93 was carelessly written as well? Umm...Didn't those championing it back then offer assurances that all would be well with it?

Bear in mind that "the people with the actual degrees and experience to make such a determination." are amply represented on the management side as well. If so ignorant a sort as myself can read it and easily see issues that may well permit a great deal of "interpretive" abuse of what you've been told it all means, well...that concerns me.

Read and evaluate the instrument and actually think, or not. Your choice.

 

[dca319]

That rings a bell. There was something you said a while back that made me think you were a westie, I can't remember what it was. Just can't put my finger on it. So, I'll just ask you on your honor. Are you now, or have you ever been based in PHX or LAS?

Question was posed and answered once before and the answer was no to both bases with an "not ever" attached.

 

[dca319]

By no means, in that I agree with him that the MOU (tragically, as it's now written) will very probably be accepted. You're postings define you as an entirely seperate issue. As for your "The little General" stuff? It's not my fault you never made it past Girl Scouts' cookie sales....Of course, in all fairness; I never made it past one without several boxes purchased.

Then I'll be sure to stop by your house. Thin mints?

 

[dca319]

Whew!!! Good thing you paid attention in your Contract Law class at Harvard....NOT!!! What is insane is a group of people who have now become self proclaimed experts on contract language and blow off the people with the actual degrees and experience to make such a determination. Arrogance at it's absolute finest.

Ask him what his plan would be if the company doesn't come back to us after we vote no on the MoU. He won't tell me.

 

[EastUS1]

Thin mints?

Of course! Even within the most heated debates, some comfort exists in knowing that certain things remain reliable constants. 😉

 

[traderjake]

I rad the same on a Chip Munn site. Did he write this too?

No he did not and you would know that if you had actually read it some where else.

 

[doh nogo]

I just have to laugh at the current state of USAPA. This is EXACTLY what the founders and supporters of the fools errand feared since day one... A VOTE - ON ANYTHING! Their entire strategy was delay. It was suggested by many, years ago, that a decent contract with respectable pay and benefits would pass membership ratification regardless of the NIC Award. "BLASPHEMY!" they shouted, to anyone who would listen. Why then not put a contract out for a vote if the east resolve and support was so strong??? It would never pass anyway, RIGHT???

Well here we are, voting on what amounts to a new contract, (much to the hardliner angry f/o's chagrin) with everyone on the east getting at least that coveted 320 captain pay. It is "Nic neutral" to quote their own words. Meaning the Nic is not gone, and no one knows the outcome yet of the seniority fight with complete certainty. Yet by all estimates it will still pass with an 80% margin. Proving that they were wrong all along, and USAPA was not operating at the will of the majority of its membership. Imagine if a decent contract had been voted on 5 years ago. Their only accomplishment was avoiding a vote on anything that would expose them. They were petrified of that all along. LMFAO!

Pathetic, narcissistic, and soon to be extinct. RIP USAPA!

 

[luvthe9]

A large bankrupt company and a small record profitability company merge and the employees at the new, largest company in its industry sector, accept the bankrupt wages of the larger company. The bankrupt employees get $100,000 bonus 13.5 % of the new company and the former profitable employees get $9500 each. Discuss if this is possible, using ideas of, but not limited to deceit and psychological strategies. {factors for discussion..both groups are highly skilled and unionized.}

 

[traderjake]

A large bankrupt company and a small record profitability company merge and the employees at the new, largest company in its industry sector, accept the bankrupt wages of the larger company. The bankrupt employees get $100,000 bonus 13.5 % of the new company and the former profitable employees get $9500 each. Discuss if this is possible, using ideas of, but not limited to deceit and psychological strategies. {factors for discussion..both groups are highly skilled and unionized.}

The bankrupt employees are Unsecured Creditors and are being compensated for their loses (i.e. termination of their DB pension, etc.).

The former profitable employees are not Unsecured Creditors and have no claim on the bankrupt company.

The bankrupt employees are going to get 13.5% of the new company with or without a merger.

The former profitable employees are going to get nothing if there is no merger.

 

[dca319]

A large bankrupt company and a small record profitability company merge and the employees at the new, largest company in its industry sector, accept the bankrupt wages of the larger company. The bankrupt employees get $100,000 bonus 13.5 % of the new company and the former profitable employees get $9500 each. Discuss if this is possible, using ideas of, but not limited to deceit and psychological strategies. {factors for discussion..both groups are highly skilled and unionized.}

Be honest here Courtney - is McKee feeding you bullet points?

 

[cleardirect]

A large bankrupt company and a small record profitability company merge and the employees at the new, largest company in its industry sector, accept the bankrupt wages of the larger company. The bankrupt employees get $100,000 bonus 13.5 % of the new company and the former profitable employees get $9500 each. Discuss if this is possible, using ideas of, but not limited to deceit and psychological strategies. {factors for discussion..both groups are highly skilled and unionized.}

That is the position that usapa and east pilots put us all into.

Congratulations.

 

[A320 Driver]

No offense taken. Its frustrating how the mob mentality always seems to take hold with our pilot group and it always becomes a case of "if you're not with us 100%, you're against us." East is a prime example of that mentality with his disparaging "shill" remarks.

I spoke with a pilot the other day that told me that no less than 4 other pilots accosted him in the crew room and brow beat him over his YES vote on the MOU. "Mob mentality" is a good way to describe it. It wasn't pilots discussing the issues...it was a band of pilots demanding a NO vote. It's shameful that so called "professional" pilots reduce themselves to thugs to push an agenda of pure hatred.

 

[A320 Driver]

A large bankrupt company and a small record profitability company merge and the employees at the new, largest company in its industry sector, accept the bankrupt wages of the larger company. The bankrupt employees get $100,000 bonus 13.5 % of the new company and the former profitable employees get $9500 each. Discuss if this is possible, using ideas of, but not limited to deceit and psychological strategies. {factors for discussion..both groups are highly skilled and unionized.}

You've been given the facts by people that know why these things are the way they are. You are either incapable of understanding them or you don't want to. Either way, you embarrass yourself further with every post.

 

[Portly Dorman]

A large bankrupt company and a small record profitability company merge and the employees at the new, largest company in its industry sector, accept the bankrupt wages of the larger company. The bankrupt employees get $100,000 bonus 13.5 % of the new company and the former profitable employees get $9500 each. Discuss if this is possible, using ideas of, but not limited to deceit and psychological strategies. {factors for discussion..both groups are highly skilled and unionized.}

Did you get any of the $70m distributed to the east pilots only? The AWA pilots, the profitable ones, got zip.

Would you mean the deceit and psychotic strategies that the flounding fathers of this 'union' have propagated on this pilot group since day one? Openness, honesty, transparency. The pilots have a say, more democratic?

The east walked away from the JCBA, formed new union and placed two extremely inexperienced pilots and a has been contract administrator up against a seasoned PROFESSIONAL. And had the audacity to try to out smart him.

Your true colors are showing, you want DOH because you brought absolutely nothing the the dance. Go back to monitoring the union bulliten board.....