Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[dca319]

Uh, what scope? Remember, you gave that away.

Is that what Music told you to post?

 

[A320 Driver]

Sounds like Horton wants better scope protection....

http://finance.yahoo...-210942067.html

He just doesn't want to leave the gravy train with his tail tucked between his legs.

 

[traderjake]

Present

Hummel-- leading the little lambs to the slaughter. USAirways, record profits. Vote NO

You can change your signature, the voting is over.

 

[luvthe9]

You can change your signature, the voting is over.

How about "vote for loa93. The contract written with no ending that USAir pilots also quickly accepted?"

 

[traderjake]

How about "vote for loa93. The contract written with no ending that USAir pilots also quickly accepted?"

You are fond of the past.

Congrats on taking contol of the BPR.

 

[luvthe9]

Or how about the last deal you guys also ratified and made us the lowest paid in the industry for a decade. Without any end date. That was a stroke of genius. How about this Traitor- " vote for LOA 93, the company will be so grateful, they will re open negotiations as soon as we get out of bankruptcy...." Not.

 

[Claxon]

I am planning on starting a second tally of damages beginning at the first class date in which West pilots were denied their system seniority when all LCC pilots were moved to a new and improved and most importantly EQUAL pay rate in violation of the agreements they entered into in 2005.

From any future POR you will see nothing but Nic at your airline/s!

Keep a tally of your legal bills over the next ten years it would take for your DFR case to be dismissed. I have provided an example of a Army of Lyingitas bill below for your further study.

http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/addington_filings/Doc614-1_Harper_ExA.pdf

 

[dca319]

Or how about the last deal you guys also ratified and made us the lowest paid in the industry for a decade. Without any end date. That was a stroke of genius. How about this Traitor- " vote for LOA 93, the company will be so grateful, they will re open negotiations as soon as we get out of bankruptcy...." Not.

You sound bitter.

 

[cactusboy53]

"Your" flying? Right, so tell me, what are you planning on doing on the new permanent bid? Never mind.........


seajay

Seejay;
Are you OK? You seem to be doing multiple responses as though you were desperate to make some sort of point.

Have a great night.

CB

 

[Portly Dorman]

Says the man from the we know better than you clan.

Never over reached have you?? How'd the pension thing work? LOA93 had better PREVIOUS offers too, right?

Or how about the last deal you guys also ratified and made us the lowest paid in the industry for a decade. Without any end date. That was a stroke of genius. How about this Traitor- " vote for LOA 93, the company will be so grateful, they will re open negotiations as soon as we get out of bankruptcy...." Not.

 

[Claxon]

Says the man from the we know better than you clan.

Never over reached have you?? How'd the pension thing work? LOA93 had better PREVIOUS offers too, right?

Ask the PBGC about the East pension. The results of your inquiry will result in a response that is similar to the following;;

The East pilots will be getting approximately 3000 more a month in retirement for life, compared to you, a west pilot.

 

[Claxon]

Allow me to save you time on your next post attempt.


http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/Documents/Employees%20and%20Compensation/AVG%20WAGE%20-%20Pilots%20and%20Copilots.pdf

 

[Claxon]

america west pilots latest update.

Leonidas Update February 7, 2013

On Friday, February First, Leonidas, LLC published an update encouraging West pilots to consider voting to ratify the MOU in light of the fact that we do not believe it harmful to our mission of protecting and enforcing the Nicolau Award. Here are additional advantages to passing the MOU. We do this with the knowledge that Leonidas, LLC leaders have a track-record of virtually unanimous support from the West pilots. Therefore, US Airways management can expect the vast majority of former AWA pilots to support their MOU.

Remember, the polls close this coming Friday at 1400 ET, so please visit https://www.BallotPoint.com/USAPA/to cast your vote if you haven't already. We will say it again, please vote to ratify the MOU now. It is in your best interests, and here is why:

1) Ripeness. This was discussed in last Friday's update. Please click here to review.

2) Furlough Protection. Only West pilots are involuntarily furloughed. Though the company and USAPA may believe that a job offer to the bottom of the East list is the same thing as a “recall” to the West, it is not. Taking one of those consolation positions has never been a requirement before. The MOU furlough protections cover every pilot currently on the property and all those pilots senior to the most junior pilot regardless of current employment status. A pilot returning after the eventual JCBA may be forced to return to another domicile but not under LOA 93 or the East seniority list. A real union would have long ago insisted on the recall of those West pilots to the West contract as that would have the net-effect of raising the average pilot pay. Instead, USAPA has done nothing to enforce compliance with the spirit and intent of our current Transition Agreement, but rather it has sought to improve the relative standing of the East pilots at the expense of the West, aided and abetted by US Airways Management. This, so USAPA can make an improved “career expectations” argument during what it prays will be a “three-way arbitration” as it desperately seeks to earn itself a “do-over” through the mechanism of this merger. In any case, the furlough protection offered by the MOU is something West pilots can appreciate given how only pre-merger West pilots were furloughed after they were replaced by much lower-paid formerly furloughed East pilots. It has been a deplorable example of your union and your company working together for a common goal, lower costs plus the elimination of West pilots. West pilots have learned that hailing from the non-bankrupt airline offers no protection or benefit whatsoever. Lesson learned, therefore we believe it to be better to have this language than nothing.

3) Seat and Pay Protections. This is a double-edged sword for West pilots who alone have pre-merger pilots who suffered a downgrade and remain locked into the First Officer seat thanks again to the lower wages available to management out East. So, while the company offers seat and pay protection to pilots at what will become much higher rates of pay, they will be locking and protecting many East pilots into seats which they have only gained by USAPA's tactics to prolong Separate Operations under LOA 93, rather than negotiate the required Joint CBA containing the Nicolau Award. As a result, the East will keep their ill-gotten gain while West pilots are locked into lower-paying positions as a result of USAPAs prolonged DFR violation and the endless series of management decisions which have sought to reward East pilots at the expense of West pilots. In any case, these were not protections negotiated under the current Transition Agreement so they represent an improvement. Even though these protections disproportionally benefit East Pilots they have real value for West Pilots. US Airways' history of failure to complete our current merger makes clear the need for this MOU.

4) Increased Pay. An obvious benefit, but again, the vast majority of the value goes to East pilots. This is the nature of parity; those who earn more before parity unavoidably get less in the equation as a result. Passing the MOU will allow retrospective pay from passage to the effective date. On the effective date the new rates will start, eliminating management’s incentive to run separate operations and our need to fight for retroactive pay.

5) An orderly process. It goes without saying that the main purpose and benefit of the MOU is to prevent USAPA from getting “USAPA'ed” by the APA! All US Airways pilots (and for that matter, APA pilots) should desire a document which prevents the majority from abusing the minority. Of course, if USAPA's legal theories were to ultimately prevail, NOTHING in the MOU could prevent the larger pilot group from having its way with the smaller group in the future. Remember, under USAPA's legal theory, the whole of the contract, (including seniority!) is renegotiable during every bargaining cycle. Nothing, including seniority, is sacred. According to USAPA, seniority is subject to the bargaining at the whim of the majority; this was the whole purpose behind the creation of USAPA. Let's hope the new majority has integrity enough to abide by its agreements in the future because the majority of East pilots under USAPA certainly have not.
For the forgoing reasons, Leonidas, LLC strongly recommends that all West pilots vote in favor of the MOU in order to best protect ourselves from USAPA, the APA and whatever management team ultimately prevails. While the MOU does not, in and of itself, solve our problems the moment it is ratified, it will take us far down the field toward our long-sought-after goal. Voting for this MOU will not waive any future claim we may choose to make, nor will it undermine our quest to enforce the Nicolau Award if we do not let it (which we won't).

Don't forget to vote.

Sincerely,

Leonidas, LLC

 

[Claxon]

army of lyingitas, america west pilots assertions in denial.

" ...aided and abetted by US Airways Management."

Former america west pilots management.

"during what it prays will be a “three-way arbitration” as it desperately seeks to earn itself a “do-over”

You do not need to pray for rain, during a TRW.

"West pilots have learned that hailing from the non-bankrupt airline offers no protection or benefit whatsoever."

American Pilots Union, APA, agrees with you on that point.

"NOTHING in the MOU could prevent the larger pilot group from having its way with the smaller group in the future."

American Pilots Union, APA, agrees with you on that point.

"Voting for this MOU will not waive any future claim we may choose to make, nor will it undermine our quest to enforce the Nicolau Award if we do not let it (which we won't)."

Lack of comprehension talent of aol, they expect the same from their followers.

"A real union would have long ago insisted on the recall of those West pilots to the West contract as that would have the net-effect of raising the average pilot pay."

You are an america west pilot, I will use the following example to disagree with your claim of raising pilot pay.

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2010%2012%20Month%20Documents/Employees%20and%20Compensation/Pilots/Average%20Annual%20Wages%20and%20Salaries%20-%20PILOT%20AND%20CO-PILOT%20PERSONNEL.htm

 

[cactusboy53]

Ahhhh, the sweet smell of desperation from the Clax-man. Keep clicking those heels, Dorothy!!