Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[dca319]

I think you have hit on the point. Why did Robert Siegel hold his head in his hands when he read judge Silvers order? Why is the company appealing her order?

No it is not a merit test before a DFR. That is the point. The company has to decide before they negotiate if they THINK usapa has an LUP. Go through the entire process, sign a contract then wait for a court to decide if they made a mistake or not. Make a mistake and lose a very expensive case. The company does not want to be the judge and decide if usapa LUP is legal or not. So the safe ground for the company to stand on is the Nicolau.

Question for you. If the MOU does not specifically deny the Nicolau or specifically state DOH does it change the current T/A?

Judge Silvers ruling will be moot as the company and APA will not negotiate for anything other than the Nicolau. No need to worry about LUP's.

usapa will be gone and the new union will represent us. enjoy the new majority.

Should Doug's PoR be accepted, that starts a clock for single carrier so my question is how soon before APA files for that? And is USAPA dissolved immediately thereafter? I assume there will be no vote in this because of APAs size, correct?

 

[Portly Dorman]

No, there is not.

The official list to be used in any SLI for the US Airways pilots is date of hire with conditions and restrictions. The Nic is a list that is no longer valid and will not be used in any future SLI.

The APA is not stupid, which is what they would be if they used the Nic. If the Nic were used in an SLI with American, In ten to fifteen years the top of the list would be made up almost entirely of former American West pilots. Not going to happen.

Skier

Where did you hear this?? American is the reason M-B came to be. The arbitrator will just ignore the NIC??

You cannot state that unequivocally. The Niclau is still the only list in the company's possession. We have passed nothing across the table and the courts have indicated we better have a darn good LUP to move off that list. The APA has also stated that integration will be slotted as well an to Niclau used. So for you to state what you stated is irresponsible.

dca19- He's a RTB, real true believer.

He needs to look at what DOH does to the AA list. Someone on the east merged the AA and US lists (no AWA to be found). I can't imagine AA handing over the top half of their list to US.

The company has stated in court that the NIC is the list they have.

 

[Portly Dorman]

Should Doug's PoR be accepted, that starts a clock for single carrier so my question is how soon before APA files for that? And is USAPA dissolved immediately thereafter? I assume there will be no vote in this because of APAs size, correct?

I'm sure usapa will have road shows (with security) just as they did for the AWA pilots. Exspousing the benefits of their union. usapa has so much to offer.

What convinced me was the unforms for union business and Scotty saying seniority was like a crew meal.

The number quoted to me was we are 35% of their list. No election needed

 

[nic4us]

No, there is not.

The official list to be used in any SLI for the US Airways pilots is date of hire with conditions and restrictions. The Nic is a list that is no longer valid and will not be used in any future SLI.

The APA is not stupid, which is what they would be if they used the Nic. If the Nic were used in an SLI with American, In ten to fifteen years the top of the list would be made up almost entirely of former American West pilots. Not going to happen.

Skier

I don't know whether I should laugh or cry.

What I do know is that I cannot believe there are people this clueless.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

dca319 asked: "Should Doug's PoR be accepted, that starts a clock for single carrier so my question is how soon before APA files for that? And is USAPA dissolved immediately thereafter? I assume there will be no vote in this because of APAs size, correct? "

Not correct. USAPA is not dissolved immediately. Barring a consensual agreement to merge unions, there WILL be an election. This answer would have been different 5 days ago.

Greeter

 

[dca319]

dca319 asked: "Should Doug's PoR be accepted, that starts a clock for single carrier so my question is how soon before APA files for that? And is USAPA dissolved immediately thereafter? I assume there will be no vote in this because of APAs size, correct? "

Not correct. USAPA is not dissolved immediately. Barring a consensual agreement to merge unions, there WILL be an election. This answer would have been different 5 days ago.

Greeter

I was pm'ed this soon after I posted my question and it makes it sound like there will be no vote and USAPA will cease to exist......


This is from the NMB's Representation Manual, pg. 7:

3.601 Percentage of Authorizations Required
If the craft or class involved in the investigation is represented and is covered by a valid existing contract between any such representative and the carrier, the application must be supported by a majority (more than 50%) of valid authorizations from individuals in the craft or class. In all other circumstances, an application must be supported by at least thirty-five (35) percent of valid authorizations from individuals in the craft or class. See also NMB Rules §§1206.2 and 1206.5 (29 CFR §§1206.2 and 1206.5). The percentage of authorizations required in a merger is governed by Manual Section 19.0.

From pg 28:

19.601 Showing of Interest on the Single Transportation System
Incumbent organizations or individuals on the affected carrier(s) must submit evidence of representation or a showing of interest from at least thirty-five (35) percent of the employees in the craft or class. This evidence includes, but is not limited to, a seniority list, dues check-off list, a current collective bargaining agreement or a certification, or other indicia of current representation.

http://www.nmb.gov/representation/re...ion-manual.pdf

 

[prechilill]

The MoU will not specify lists directly but merely the process by which integration will occur. That's why no one voted against the MoU - no lists mentioned. We will get a contract first and then integrate. Once integration is done it'll become effective immediately. BTW, from what I've been told, USAPA will be long gone when the time for SLI comes. And, as I've said, it sounds like they'll be using Niclau for our side.

Exactly. We will have a JCBA before we enter SLI with American

 

[EastUS1]

maybe I just missed it but is there documentation anywhere where APA has expressed agreement and support for the Nic?

Nowhere that I'm aware of, or even have reasonable cause to assume as at all existing at this point...any/all trips through Fantasyland for those truly devout that've supposedly "seen the light" notwithstanding. I find it best to avoid peyote/sweat-lodge rituals in the deepest desert, so I may not be the proper person to ask here. 😉

Were any such documentation existing...It'd have long since been plastered all over, well, pretty much everywhere by the west's faith-filled cultists.

 

[EastUS1]

But they have stated that the integration will look something like what Niclau put together.

"...something like what Niclau put together." Show us where that's stated....anywhere at all?

 

[EastUS1]

I don't know whether I should laugh or cry.

No worries there nic, since it's long been difficult to determine any difference ("laugh or cry") in your postings anyway. 🙂

nic4us: "Billions in damages" 😉

No personal offence old boy, as you used to be a seemingly rational person to converse with...but...those days are too long past, it sadly seems.

 

[dca319]

The document exists through a letter from Doug indicating it has met all the company-imposed criteria. What we are missing is a letter revoking that letter. Even Paul DiOrio acknowledges the existence of the Niclau.

 

[dca319]

"...something like what Niclau put together." Show us where that's stated....anywhere at all?

That letter from the APA was just recently posted on this forum.

 

[EastUS1]

That letter from the APA was just recently posted on this forum.

Ok...You can't directly quote any reference to back up your BS then? = "...something like what Niclau put together." ? No problem, and no surprise whatsoever. I'll take a wild stab at assuming there's far less universal awe and admiration for jolly old St. Nic's particularly insane BS here, even among arbitrators, than you might imagine.

 

[EastUS1]

This time Parker learned from his mistakes and is not going to let the east mess up the merger and integration this time.

From all your postings; I'd thought the east completely powerless in this issue....so...why even note that last?

 

[EastUS1]

That's true, and it explains why you eastholes, with your entitlement mentality are such miserable bastards.

"... such miserable bastards."...?

Amusing indeed son. You needn't fret there though, as I honestly doubt that given the magical opportunity, I'd trade even some single, individual years of my life for the entirety of yours...especially having viewed your perspectives. No matter. To each his own, I suppose. Revel in your adolescant hostility and general, spiritual malaise as you see best fit to do...which costs no others anything...or eventually just grow up. Your choice. Unllike yourself; I wish none out west/those in opposition here, any ill/evil/hardship or harm. What would even be the point in doing so?

Seriously though = Cheer up kid! There's no pressing need for anyone to ever go through his/her entire life as just a "wanna-be" and otherwise, just generally frustrated and angry person. Help is available for such maladies these days...or otherwise just get off your arse and make your dreams come true. You wanted to become a doctor?...Ok..If you flew an F4 without killing yourself...You can't be a completely undisciplined, hopeless, villiage idiot (regardless of how you represent yourself here)...Yet you've nothing better to do than sit here and wish ill on others? Sigh!....Make what you want from life happen. It rarely does so on it's own accord.

"Argue for your limitations and sure enough, they're yours." Richard Bach