Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[flyer63]

The document exists through a letter from Doug indicating it has met all the company-imposed criteria. What we are missing is a letter revoking that letter. Even Paul DiOrio acknowledges the existence of the Niclau.

PM me your name so I can make sure I throw up before we fly together and not during the flight

 

[dca319]

Ok...You can't directly quote any reference to back up your BS then? = "...something like what Niclau put together." ? No problem, and no surprise whatsoever. I'll take a wild stab at assuming there's far less universal awe and admiration for jolly old St. Nic's particularly insane BS here, even among arbitrators, than you might imagine.

My apologies as I was unaware you lacked the desire to effect your own search on this forum. I've done it on you behalf and it can be found under post 2075.


APA Letter:

"We have seen a model for a successfully arbitrated seniority integration at Delta-Northwest using fences and a ratio methodology based on a percentile seniority list ranking. Also, if an American Airlines-US Airways seniority integration were to be arbitrated, our attorneys have indicated that the ongoing seniority dispute between “West” and “East” at US Airways would be settled as part of the process and should not have any negative impact on an arbitrator’s decision under the McCaskill-Bond statute."

http://aviationblog....le-merger.html/

 

[dca319]

PM me your name so I can make sure I throw up before we fly together and not during the flight

Sticking your fingers into your ears and yelling doesn't make the facts to away. Feel free to refute what I've posted.

 

[dca319]

PM me your name so I can make sure I throw up before we fly together and not during the flight

And feel free to PM me your name first.

 

[EastUS1]

My apologies ...

No need, since your post makes my point in any case. Umm...Where's anything referencing Mr. Nic to be found anywhere in what you've just, however-so-pitifully posted?....Or did I just miss some contained homage to him entirely? 😉

dca319: "Sticking your fingers into your ears and yelling doesn't make the facts to away. Feel free to refute what I've posted"....? 🙂

I feel I should fairly again note that I've absolutely no disrespect to offer George Nic, purely based on his Service and sacrifice of not only potentially his then young life, but indeed, of his leg in the Mighty Eighth...but...having seen Ahlzhiemers first hand, in a previously steadfast and unquestionably courageous, utterly brilliant, and very highly decorated Warrior in my own family tree = Navy Cross/Purple Heart with two clusters/etc (not to be, in ANY way confused with westie "spartans' or "knights" who "fought with valor in many battles" merely in Fantasyland) ...well...we do all eventually fail and die over over time.

If none of your sort of pathetic idiots gets anything else from postings today: Please, at least try to actually listen/read/understand and THINK before voting on any proposal. It will be your futures at stake.

 

[cleardirect]

No, there is not.

The official list to be used in any SLI for the US Airways pilots is date of hire with conditions and restrictions. The Nic is a list that is no longer valid and will not be used in any future SLI.

The APA is not stupid, which is what they would be if they used the Nic. If the Nic were used in an SLI with American, In ten to fifteen years the top of the list would be made up almost entirely of former American West pilots. Not going to happen.

Skier

Where is this written? That the Nicolau is not valid? That the official list is DOH? Even judge Silver called it just a proposal unlike the Nicolau which is accepted by the company.

As far as what the list looks like 10-15 years from now. APA will be less concerned about that then they will be for the next 5-10. DOH places 85% of the east pilots in the top 50% of a combined list. THAT is not going to happen.

 

[dca319]

No need, since your post makes my point in any case. Umm...Where's anything referencing Mr. Nic to be found anywhere in what you've just, however-so-pitifully posted?....Or did I just miss some contained homage to him entirely? 😉

dca319: "Sticking your fingers into your ears and yelling doesn't make the facts to away. Feel free to refute what I've posted"....? 🙂

I feel I should fairly again ote that I've absoultuely no disrespect to George Nic, purely based on his Service and sacrifice of not only potentially his then young life, but indeed of his leg in the Mighty Eighth...but...having seen Ahlzhiemiers first hand in a previously steadfast and unquestionably courageous Warrior within my own family tree...well...we do all eventually fail and die over over time.

If none of your sort of pathetic idiots gets anything else from postings today: Please at least try to actually listen/read and THINK before voting on any proposal. It will be your futures at stake.

And another angry one to add to the angry Bill club. That DAL NWA is the same methodology Noclau used. I never stated that Niclau's name was invoked in the APA letter but merely referenced the integration as being Niclau-like.

 

[cleardirect]

Should Doug's PoR be accepted, that starts a clock for single carrier so my question is how soon before APA files for that? And is USAPA dissolved immediately thereafter? I assume there will be no vote in this because of APAs size, correct?

I believe that the term sheet stated the APA had 6 months after the POR to file for single carrier status. Most likely ASAP. No vote since US Air pilots are only 33%, less than the 35% (furloughed pilots get count for representational elections) required for a vote.

How long it takes the NMB to determine single carrier is anyones guess but should not be to hard to determine. Once the APA is certified as the bargaining agent usapa is buried in the pine box that started all of this.

What happens next is foggy. The APA will be the bargaining agent and they may assign former US air pilots to the merger committee. Because like ALPA the APA will not want to in the middle deciding seniority or even the hint of DFR. Unlike usapa that thinks they can dictate seniority.

Best guess 6-8 months after the POR usapa is in the ground.

 

[dca319]

Isn't the number 50% now?

 

[cleardirect]

"...something like what Niclau put together." Show us where that's stated....anywhere at all?

APA update talking about ratios.

 

[prechilill]

How long it takes the NMB to determine single carrier is anyones guess but should not be to hard to determine. Once the APA is certified as the bargaining agent usapa is buried in the pine box that started all of this.

What happens next is foggy. The APA will be the bargaining agent and they may assign former US air pilots to the merger committee. Because like ALPA the APA will not want to in the middle deciding seniority or even the hint of DFR. Unlike usapa that thinks they can dictate seniority.

Best guess 6-8 months after the POR usapa is in the ground.

2 months from USAPAs request to the NMB decision granting single carrier status. My best guess, Usapa lasts four months past POR. 2008-2013 R.I.H.

 

[cleardirect]

Isn't the number 50% now?

To start new representation. A none vote is a no vote.

This is different. Changing unions.

 

[EastUS1]

APA update talking about ratios.

You've the proverbial villiage idiot's proclivity for restating the obvious, when even that opportunity's afforded to you...which, whenever you're not otherwise dodging any/all direct questions of any kind; I've long-since come to expect. I'd asked for any direct reference to Mr. Nic and the mess here. = dca319: "something like what Niclau put together."....? If such excessive "subtlety" easilly escapes you...well..have a fine night regardless. 😉

 

[Phoenix]

I was pm'ed this soon after I posted my question and it makes it sound like there will be no vote and USAPA will cease to exist......


This is from the NMB's Representation Manual, pg. 7:

3.601 Percentage of Authorizations Required
If the craft or class involved in the investigation is represented and is covered by a valid existing contract between any such representative and the carrier, the application must be supported by a majority (more than 50%) of valid authorizations from individuals in the craft or class. In all other circumstances, an application must be supported by at least thirty-five (35) percent of valid authorizations from individuals in the craft or class. See also NMB Rules §§1206.2 and 1206.5 (29 CFR §§1206.2 and 1206.5). The percentage of authorizations required in a merger is governed by Manual Section 19.0.

From pg 28:

19.601 Showing of Interest on the Single Transportation System
Incumbent organizations or individuals on the affected carrier(s) must submit evidence of representation or a showing of interest from at least thirty-five (35) percent of the employees in the craft or class. This evidence includes, but is not limited to, a seniority list, dues check-off list, a current collective bargaining agreement or a certification, or other indicia of current representation.

http://www.nmb.gov/r....ion-manual.pdf

Greeter said something about "five days ago"... I think the NMB manual existed five days ago... hmm...

 

[Bill Brasky]

dca319 is an idiot. Believe anything he says at your own peril.