Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[dca319]

Pi,

Understand that ALL recognize the CoC leverage strength lies in bargaining for a more acceptable contract ( or whatever letterS u wanna use ) now.

FA

Then why isn't the NAC doing so?

 

[dca319]

and get the AB319 into the Group TWO category, AMR management wanted neither.

seajay

We wanted the 321 in Group 3 and the company countered by wanting the 319 in Group 1. The compromise moved both aircraft to Group 2.

 

[dca319]

.
Personally I'm just too tired, beat up and generally abused, after 25 years of being a AAA pilot, to walk away from this MOU and it's follow on JCBA with AMR.

seajay

You're not the only one.

 

[Al Legheny]

U would be doing yourself a favor by going to a roadshow.

The MOU was not negotiated between just Parker and USAPA......negotiations were amongst all 5 parties with the UCC being foremost at the table. An important background item on how the MOU turned out. UCC wants this as much as anyone.

The vagueness in writing the MOU was intentional with further processes built in to close the loopholes. For example, on day 1, pay, DC contributions, and a few other items will start immediately. However, many other items will be implimented later, such as scheduling and switching over to PBS. Point is, there will be kinks to work out.

Guys, it ain't perfect, but I think its the right route for us. We will soon be under APA with a new JCBA.

Go to a roadshow if u can, and of course, vote whats in your heart.

Just IMHO
Breeze

Yes I agree, go to a Road Show. A little birdie, not a fly, told me that today in PHL the Vice Chairman, Mike Gillies stood up in support of the MOU. Mike was in training on the 4th of Jan when the vote was taken but had the integrity to stand by his vote and the vote of his DDR.

So despite many eamils that talk about the dastardaly dealing going on it appears that the actual split on the vote was 7 to 4 not 6 to 5. 7 to 4 is a pretty solid majority and Mike is to be commended for his stand. It appears the CLT reps and their cronies have everyone believing that it was a 6 to 5 vote. I gues nobody bothered to ask Mike.

 

[Zone5]

How does status quo beat the MOU?

It doesn't, time to move on, damn near "anything" would be better than, "lets just keep doing what we've been doing".


seajay

 

[Zone5]

We wanted the 321 in Group 3 and the company countered by wanting the 319 in Group 1. The compromise moved both aircraft to Group 2.

And so it goes, it's called negotiating and by definition, neither side gets everything they want and so it will be with the "New" SLI agreement. Yes "Virginia", there will be "new" bite at the seniority apple and "nobody" is really going to like the taste. Would everybody have been happier if APA had "caved" on the 190's and they all went to the commuters?


seajay

 

[cleardirect]

Yes I agree, go to a Road Show. A little birdie, not a fly, told me that today in PHL the Vice Chairman, Mike Gillies stood up in support of the MOU. Mike was in training on the 4th of Jan when the vote was taken but had the integrity to stand by his vote and the vote of his DDR.

So despite many eamils that talk about the dastardaly dealing going on it appears that the actual split on the vote was 7 to 4 not 6 to 5. 7 to 4 is a pretty solid majority and Mike is to be commended for his stand. It appears the CLT reps and their cronies have everyone believing that it was a 6 to 5 vote. I gues nobody bothered to ask Mike.

Ifthat is the case. What is the opinion of the other PHL rep? Did the CLT reps ALSO mis speak about him too?

Can the clt rep be trusted to tell the truth about anything?

 

[nycbusdriver]

I attended the Philly roadshow on the MOU yesterday. I suggest that if there is any way for each of you to attend, you should do so.

Much of the info that was provided cleared up my questions and confusion about the MOU.

I changed my vote to "YES".

breeze

So they explained how the company can be trusted to interpret the vague language in the pilots' favor?

 

[dca319]

So they explained how the company can be trusted to interpret the vague language in the pilots' favor?

As opposed to the way they interpret it now?

 

[nycbusdriver]

As opposed to the way they interpret it now?

Yes, exactly. As opposed to the way they interpret it now. Keen grasp of the obvious. Thank you.

 

[nic4us]

And so it goes, it's called negotiating and by definition, neither side gets everything they want and so it will be with the "New" SLI agreement. Yes "Virginia", there will be "new" bite at the seniority apple and "nobody" is really going to like the taste. Would everybody have been happier if APA had "caved" on the 190's and they all went to the commuters?


seajay

So, let me get this straight. Usapa counsel came to PHX and lied to or at least intentional misled it's constituency.

This is going to get real good when you start sizing up that "seniority apple" and it turns out we are combining seniority oranges.

 

[signals]

How does status quo beat the MOU?

Couldn't make it to Charlotte, huh, Douche?

Meep-meep 😛 😛 😛

 

[Bill Brasky]

So they explained how the company can be trusted to interpret the vague language in the pilots' favor?

Mr. Wilder explained that what is being called "vague" is really standard contract language, and that abiguities exist in all contracts. The cost and intent have been documented, and language will be corrected and addressed as it presents itself. Also, we will do better to stand against management injustice as a group of 14000+ pilots than we will as a group of 3500+.

That's what I recall from the roadshow. Again, my interpretation of what was said. It satisfied me. There are NO 100% foolproff ways to write a contract. If there were, there would no civil court system and a lot fewer wealthy lawyers.

 

[EastUS1]

So they explained how the company can be trusted to interpret the vague language in the pilots' favor?

Yep. I sure can't think of anything that could even possibly be a better idea than to arm management with yet a vastly more vague (and subject to "interpretation") instrument than they already have. Seriously....words just fail me here.

 

[signals]

We wanted the 321 in Group 3 and the company countered by wanting the 319 in Group 1. The compromise moved both aircraft to Group 2.

Oh me oh my, however are you going to get all those trustworthy points back up there, Capt. Pointless?
Meep-meep 😛 😛 😛