Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Walmartgreeter]

I've heard that McKee and his incoming band of merry men have plans in place to challenge the MoU due to a technicality with the Constitution. They will file a protest in April.

I forgot to ask. Why April?

Greeter

 

[dca319]

If Gary IS proposing this, he better be prepared to be sued and recalled.

It is a CLEAR violation of the C & B as well as Labor Law. He can be personally held liable. we are on top of it, if what you say is true, which I truly doubt.

Gary is not proposing this. It's the company's prerogative to allow whom they want at the table. Gary is along for the ride.

 

[dca319]

I forgot to ask. Why April?

Greeter

Not explained to me but I assume new reps need to be in place and established.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Not explained to me but I assume new reps need to be in place and established.

That is what I guessed. As I said yesterday (not directed at you, by the way) there are certain roosters crowing just a bit early.

Greeter

 

[pjirish317]

Gary is not proposing this. It's the company's prerogative to allow whom they want at the table. Gary is along for the ride.

While I will agree that the company can "invite" or "allow" as you say, anyone they want to be at the table, what kind of say that said "invited" or "allowed" person has is yet to be determined. They might be able to just observe, and in no way shape or form be able to participate. Just a thought though.

 

[Portly Dorman]

From the comments on this article....

Only in a New York-centric world would Dallas-Fort Worth and Phoenix be considered "close." They are 865 miles apart.

But:
JFK (AA hub) to Philadelphia (US Airways hub) = 93 miles
Chicago O'Hare (AA) to Philadelphia (US) = 676 miles
Chicago O'Hare (AA) to Charlotte (US) = 599 miles
DFW (AA) to Charlotte (US) = 651 miles

Unless the new AA wants to abandon the West Coast and one of the fastest-growing cities in the country, Philadelphia and Charlotte would seem to be more at risk. Philadelphia is a major European hub for US Airways, but it is close to JFK.


Kinda makes ya go hmmmmm....

Interesting article in the New York Times today:

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/02/13/american-and-us-airways-said-to-vote-for-merger/

Regarding potential "post merger" moves, I noted the following:

"It is also unclear whether American needs all of its combined hubs. Analysts pointed out that Phoenix was at risk because of its proximity to Dallas, since it makes little sense to have two big hubs so close to each other."

Passengers in PHX who want to travel internationally are more than likely not going to be traveling nonstop!


seajay

 

[dca319]

While I will agree that the company can "invite" or "allow" as you say, anyone they want to be at the table, what kind of say that said "invited" or "allowed" person has is yet to be determined. They might be able to just observe, and in no way shape or form be able to participate. Just a thought though.

Rest assured that if AoL is invited to participate, the Nic is guaranteed to be used. I wonder why we haven't gotten any word as to a contingency if this happens.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

From the comments on this article....

Only in a New York-centric world would Dallas-Fort Worth and Phoenix be considered "close." They are 865 miles apart.

But:
JFK (AA hub) to Philadelphia (US Airways hub) = 93 miles
Chicago O'Hare (AA) to Philadelphia (US) = 676 miles
Chicago O'Hare (AA) to Charlotte (US) = 599 miles
DFW (AA) to Charlotte (US) = 651 miles

Unless the new AA wants to abandon the West Coast and one of the fastest-growing cities in the country, Philadelphia and Charlotte would seem to be more at risk. Philadelphia is a major European hub for US Airways, but it is close to JFK.


Kinda makes ya go hmmmmm....

Kind of makes me go "yawn." They already closed my hub, I am commuting no matter what. As always, it is about ME.

Greeter

 

[Portly Dorman]

Jamie you didn't listen to the investor web cast this morning. Parker stated this merger is good for the employees as the stand alone carrier could have never paid what the merged carrier can pay.

The bargaining position will change if it goes to arbitration. No sense in arguing DOH when we can TRULY use the AWA argument that our financial futures were much brighter as a "stand alone" carrier then the American "stand alone" position without.

Here is the REAL body of confirmation of OUR Arbitration argument using the US Airways-AWA Dispatchers arbitration:

"West characterizes the merger decision on AWA’s part as a one-way economic bailout. But there is no support for this in the record; surely, the respective companies did not endorse that view. AWA concluded, according to the statements of its CEO, that "…when we looked out at our future, what we saw wasn’t good…. Assuming we couldn’t go out and restructure or raise cash, it is possible that AWA would have been facing its own Chapter 11 at some point. Employees may like to think we "saved" US but the fact is we saved each other…18

The June 10, 2005 issue of "Plane Deal", an AWA publication, touted some of the benefits of joining fleet forces: ​

When merged, the combined airline will become the nation’s 5th larges airline, as measured by domestic available seat miles (ASMs). The combined airline is expected to operated a mainline fleet of 361 planes (supported by 239 regional jets and 57 turbo props for feed into the mainline system), down from a total of 419 mainline aircraft operated by both airlines at the beginning of 2005….19 ​

In the context of a "Town Hall" Q&A , the company noted ​

the prospect of a combined airline was more enticing to investors: ​

The money is being raised for the combined airline, because investors see the value in the merged entity. Frankly, airlines in their current state don’t look appealing to investors, who are savvy to know industry change needs to take place. The proposed merger represents the kind of change that investors believe will be successful. So, unfortunately, we wouldn’t garner this kind of interest if we were seeking funding for America West "as is."20

Your don't have to use Nicolau's arguement when there are so many other "Arbitrators" decisions to draw from.

 

[cactusboy53]

Those westies are making stuff up again. The Nic is gone.

Keep clicking those heels, Dorothy.

https://www.youtube....h?v=Yc13WSaiRMM

 

[cynic]

From the comments on this article....

Only in a New York-centric world would Dallas-Fort Worth and Phoenix be considered "close." They are 865 miles apart.

But:
JFK (AA hub) to Philadelphia (US Airways hub) = 93 miles
Chicago O'Hare (AA) to Philadelphia (US) = 676 miles
Chicago O'Hare (AA) to Charlotte (US) = 599 miles
DFW (AA) to Charlotte (US) = 651 miles

Unless the new AA wants to abandon the West Coast and one of the fastest-growing cities in the country, Philadelphia and Charlotte would seem to be more at risk. Philadelphia is a major European hub for US Airways, but it is close to JFK.


Kinda makes ya go hmmmmm....

Check the population density, as well as the demographics and maybe you will figure it out. I'll get you started:

Philly has a huge market for international flying, that will continue as they can generate a revenue premium by being the biggest fish in town. Phoenix is largely connecting traffic and much of that can be routed through other locations. I think there will still be a smaller hub in Phoenix, but some of the flying will now go via other connections. Ironically, Vegas would probably be a better place for the hub than Phoenix. Well, it would have been, if not for Spirit and Allegiant breaking into the market and driving O&D yields even more. I was thinking more from a geographical standpoint.

 

[nevergiveup]

Rest assured that if AoL is invited to participate, the Nic is guaranteed to be used. I wonder why we haven't gotten any word as to a contingency if this happens.

Strong words for such a weak case. However, I think it will be used in PHX.

 

[Metroyet]

Rest assured that if AoL is invited to participate, the Nic is guaranteed to be used. I wonder why we haven't gotten any word as to a contingency if this happens.

AOL isn't waiting around to be "invited". AOL doesn't give a sh*t who wants what and where. The only course of action is in Federal Court. That's where this is going to get hashed out. AOL doesn't need to be invited to anything as long as USCABA is under court order to hand over the Nic to the APA as the certified list for US Airways pilots. Without an LUP to do otherwise, USTUPID is dead meat. We all know they nothing but whining, crying, and temper tantrums. None of which consititute an LUP. A Jury told them this once already and every single Judge has warned them about how they proceed as well. They can't hide behind ripeness for much longer.

 

[Bill Brasky]

AOL isn't waiting around to be "invited". AOL doesn't give a sh*t who wants what and where. The only course of action is in Federal Court. That's where this is going to get hashed out. AOL doesn't need to be invited to anything as long as USCABA is under court order to hand over the Nic to the APA as the certified list for US Airways pilots. Without an LUP to do otherwise, USTUPID is dead meat. We all know they nothing but whining, crying, and temper tantrums. None of which consititute an LUP. A Jury told them this once already and every single Judge has warned them about how they proceed as well. They can't hide behind ripeness for much longer.

Stupidest post ever. The Ninth AND Judge Silver told you that USAPA can negotiate any SLI they wish. And, no other union, including the APA, would EVER concede that they would be bound by a prior union's negotiating position. Dude, just stop already.

That omly whining I see here are the westies that are gonna have to pay their dues like everybody else.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

AOL isn't waiting around to be "invited". AOL doesn't give a sh*t who wants what and where. The only course of action is in Federal Court. That's where this is going to get hashed out. AOL doesn't need to be invited to anything as long as USCABA is under court order to hand over the Nic to the APA as the certified list for US Airways pilots. Without an LUP to do otherwise, USTUPID is dead meat. We all know they nothing but whining, crying, and temper tantrums. None of which consititute an LUP. A Jury told them this once already and every single Judge has warned them about how they proceed as well. They can't hide behind ripeness for much longer.

Go ahead, throw your money to the lawyers. USAPA won't exist in a few months, who are you going to sue? APA? You think they are going to let that list in? Hell no. Sure, start the paperwork all over again. This thing will be tied up in court for years and then when the courts finally throw it out what do you have? Nothing except thousands of dollars wasted. There's a point when you have to realize this list isn't going to be used. My suggestion - print a copy of it, read it over a few shots of Jack Daniels, and throw it in the fire pit. Then count your lucky stars that you actually won the real lottery today with this merger because let's face it this never would have happened any other way for you.

Later,
Eye