jimntx
Veteran
Ok, guy, you're falling down on the job. Here it is already the 07JAN, and you haven't posted the December attrition yet! Inquiring minds want to know! 
December Attrition
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kirkpatrick
Veteran
I will gently nudge my source tomorrow, but bear in mind it's a Sunday, so it may be another day or so.
MK
MK
kirkpatrick
Veteran
64 for December, for a 2005 total of 885. In addition, 14 more TWA FA's retired from furlough status for a total of 310 for the year.
Te recall list as of 12/31/05 shows 4070, 3118 of whom are TWA.
MK
Te recall list as of 12/31/05 shows 4070, 3118 of whom are TWA.
MK
NewHampshire Black Bears
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Mark,
Your the "best" on F/A furlough info.
By the numbers I count 862 AA, then LLC folks.
With "Bone Head" decisions to close (for example) PVD to main line, I have doubts if the "862(nd) F/a will ever be recalled. I CERTAINLY HOPE I'M "WRONG" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,
because I hope EVERY AA/LLC F/A get's that letter, asking if they want "back in"
Like EVERYTHING else at AA,
TIME WILL TELL.
NH/BB's
Uhhh, not exactly. There are currently 100 nAAtive flight attendant names ahead of the most senior former TWA flight attendant on the recall list.
Additionally, there are literally hundreds of nAAtive flight attendants awaiting recall who are junior to the former TWA flight attendants. Do not mistake this fact for some kind of seniority integration. It was merely a byproduct of AA's continued hiring after the announced acquisition of TWA.
Thank you for your kind wishes concerning the recall of the former TWA flight attendants. There are many who have suffered unimaginably as a consequence of the actions of the APFA.
NewHampshire Black Bears
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Hunter,
Thanx for the clarification.
Unfortunately I'm aware of the seniority between APFA and LLC F/A's
Like APA, and TWU did, I was an "early" and "often" proponent of some sort of ratio intergration for all people coming from TWA.
NH/BB's
B
B.O.B.
Guest
Nobody to blame for that except your former union, the IAM!
kirkpatrick
Veteran
As Tim points out, there are actually only 99 AAers ahead of us. #100, Jo Schuetz, is now the senior TWA person.
Unfortunately, by the end of this year the list of 4070 will be shortened significantly, recall or no recall. There are about 850 AA people hired after the acquisition whose five year recall rights will expire this November, and at least five or six hundred TWA people furloughed after 9/11 who are in the same boat. In addition, another three or four hundred TWA people were laid off in Jan of 2002, and their recall rights will expire in Jan of 2007.
I'm one of those holding out for a recall this year, in spite of the company's word play with "not having plans this year." Nothing stops them from making plans as soon as they need to. The company's stock, load factors and RPM's all seem to be heading in the right direction, and there have been no announced cutbacks in service. IORFA just posted that a proffer of 100 for ORI has just come out. Who's gonna replace these people on Domestic?
Sooner or later things just have to come to a head. And with the large number of people who will refuse recall, it's not difficult to imagine the entire furlough list disappearing by the middle of 2007.
All is not lost for those losing their recall rights, however. TWA hired several hundred in 1979 and laid them off in the fall. At the time we had five year rights as well, and many of them dropped off the list in '84. When the company hired again in '85, many of them were rehired. Since they were at the bottom of the list and bottom of the payscale anyway, they were really in pretty much the same position as they had been anyway.
Let's hope AA gives priority hiring to those who lose their recall rights this year.
MK
Mike,
I agree there probably will be a recall this year, even though they are shrinking the domestic operation, the international just keeps growing. We are short at JFK right now. With the IOR proffer I can guarantee we will lose quite a few, with the summer flying starting in May, where are we going to fill these positions from?
I was denied leave in conjunction with vacation(which never happens, until now) of only 6 days because we are so short. Believe me the company at this moment is only hurting themselves again. I amnot calling in sick but I know a few who are.
I agree there probably will be a recall this year, even though they are shrinking the domestic operation, the international just keeps growing. We are short at JFK right now. With the IOR proffer I can guarantee we will lose quite a few, with the summer flying starting in May, where are we going to fill these positions from?
I was denied leave in conjunction with vacation(which never happens, until now) of only 6 days because we are so short. Believe me the company at this moment is only hurting themselves again. I amnot calling in sick but I know a few who are.
B
B.O.B.
Guest
THB has mentioned she would like to get unlimited recall rights for all APFA members. The problem is that; AA doesn't want to give that much time.
Out of the question? No.
Likely? No.
The issue of extending recall rights is hopelessly mired in overly emotional and unintelligent internal APFA politics. Ironically, those likely to suffer harm first are actually nAAtive flight attendants junior to former TWA flight attendants whose recall right expire this fall.
It is the very same vocal hardliners who would have terminated the former TWA flight attendants and forced each to reapply with AA as a result of the acquisition who now pressure APFA to sit idly by as its members are needlessly harmed. Talk about vengeance.
I could go on but for what purpose. The reality is that it will not be because of any action by APFA that the former TWA flight attendants will be recalled. In fact, there are numerous examples to the contrary. Ie Speaker LOA, Option II LOA, 737 Settlement.
In my view, a stable state at AA will hasten a recall of at least some of the former TWA flight attendants because of attrition. Couple attrition with modest growth and former TWA flight attendants and nAAtives alike may be spared further harm so long as APFA does not give or trade away any more jobs via letters of agreement and grievance settlements.
jimntx
Veteran
The irony being that a number of those are Mandarin Chinese speakers hired for the express purpose of starting/expanding China service. The proffer for Chicago International is actually for 130 f/as--30 CM speakers and 100 non-speakers.
MK, when I put my business-like, logical, rational hat on, I agree with you that there can not NOT be a recall this year. However, with all the shortages there are bid leaves being offered for February! Go figure.
As far as the f/as below the most junior former TW f/as, it is true that starting over would not be much of a loss seniority wise. There is no one below them on the seniority list now, and there wouldn't be then. However, I would truly hate to see former TW flight attendants who had flown honorably and professionally for 20-30 years have to start back at the bottom in order to work for AA. If that were the case for me, I would have to look at the fact that CO and UAL are both hiring right now.
You are right that the statement "there are no plans to recall any furloughees in 2006" is hardly worth the ink and the paper that it took to write it. There is a small, but very important difference between the phrase, "There are no plans to" and the phrase, "We are not going to." As I pointed out to a furloughee last week...There were no plans to recall any furloughees in 2004. I was in the 2nd recall that year. 🙄
jimntx
Veteran
Domestically, not much. AFAIK, the only flights that still had VMs on them were the super short ones like DFW-AUS and ORD-STL. There were several VM lines on the bidsheet at DFW (don't know about ORD or LGA), but eliminating those lines certainly did not reduce headcount, and I doubt it delayed the next recall by more than a month or two.
In any case the attrition for 2005 wiped out the headcount from the two recalls in 2004 plus 180 f/as. The attrition for the last half of 2004 was approximately 450. So, 450 + 885 (2005 attrition) + 130 (proffer for IOR) = 1465. Recalls in 2004 were approx. 705. So, assuming that the entire proffer will be filled from domestic, that would put us almost 800 below the June, 2004 staffing. I know that some of that proffer will be filled from f/as in other International bases, but that will just create vacancies in those bases that will probably have to be filled from Domestic via proffers.
