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Decertification information!

If there is a decertification there will be massive layoffs and all heavy mtc and ramp work the company can and will outsource it.
If there is a decertification, people like you would have to get off their dead asses, and actually work and face performance evaluations, and risk being replaced by better harder working people.

But, you could always walk a picket and threaten to beat up anyone that disagrees with you, old habits die hard for goons. 😀
 
Is this a Statement of fact?

Or merely a USA320 Pilot like opinion?

Or did the facts get in your way?

Did you ever stop to think that with decertification that US may decide to revamp work rules to the point that they decide to bring work in house? Or is that to foriegn a concept for your IAM brainwashed mind?
speaking of USA320 we havent heard from him since he lost the election late last yr.

Hopefully if the IAM is decertified or whatever ruling occurs, the stupid contract will be tossed out and the furloughed agents allowed back on.
 
If there is a decertification there will be massive layoffs and all heavy mtc and ramp work the company can and will outsource it.

7 what are you up to today? Is this a wish you have or has it already happened? Massive layoffs have already happened. Heavy mtc is already and will continue to be outsourced with the IAM's blessing.

Has decertification happened .....NO!

Do a majority of the U employees want the IAM.....NO!

Are these facts that you are stating.....NO!

Do I believe that the current IAM members will allow decertification.......NO!

Is the IAM using the decertification as a scare tactic and is it only one of several outcomes possible........YES!

🙂
 
I predict decertification, followed by the company bringing work in house and mechs who work hard will get a raise, mechs who are lazy will get fired....free market will take over finally!!!!
Jack...decert and all the monies Air Canada Technologies invested will pay off in one fell swoop.
they'll be doing the minimal barebones maintenance with decert...all fleet will be vendored,all heavy....think about what you say.its a blank check for U management with no union and no contract on the property for two years or more. 😉

decert is an extremely baad outcome for all
 
Jack...decert and all the monies Air Canada Technologies invested will pay off in one fell swoop.
they'll be doing the minimal barebones maintenance with decert...all fleet will be vendored,all heavy....think about what you say.its a blank check for U management with no union and no contract on the property for two years or more. 😉

decert is an extremely baad outcome for all
Why? Have the unions really done much to protect workers? How much worse off is a five year Jet Blue mech than a five year USAIR or AWA mech? How do you guys compare to non-union Delta or non-union Fed -Ex?
 
Why? Have the unions really done much to protect workers? How much worse off is a five year Jet Blue mech than a five year USAIR or AWA mech? How do you guys compare to non-union Delta or non-union Fed -Ex?
Bob,
The individual "company culture" will be the main differences between any union and non-union company. The unions have protected members jobs (to a point), depending on the union, the company and the business environment. The basic answer to the question is yes, they have protected the membership, because the companies have a "process" that they have agreed to follow. This is a short answer to an involved question. 🙂
 
The unions have protected members jobs (to a point), depending on the union, the company and the business environment. The basic answer to the question is yes, they have protected the membership, because the companies have a "process" that they have agreed to follow. This is a short answer to an involved question. 🙂
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Well, there is a little more to it than that. The degree of protection has also depended on where you worked. IAM did nothing to protect the jobs of the Fleet Service agent in small stations. The hubs, yes as that kept them on the field at least. Honestly, their representation of small F/S stations has been "no repesentation." I know, I was in one of these staions. Local lodge cose to 5 hrs away and I had to pass another to get to mine. Agc that only came when he was on the way to visit his family who lived close by. No answers to any questions. No grievences ever solved.
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IAM may represent the M & R. I can't say. Never worked there. I can speak only about how they did not represent me in a small F/S station. GET RID OF THEM if you can!
 
Why? Have the unions really done much to protect workers? How much worse off is a five year Jet Blue mech than a five year USAIR or AWA mech? How do you guys compare to non-union Delta or non-union Fed -Ex?
the issue here is how fast the company will outsource everything it can to reduce unwarranted costs through contractual obligations if it had its way and would be gone pronto.

for the most part though,with labor laws and such(many that were writen due to union job protections negotiaited in contracts)these days.....most job protections parallel contract guarantees to some extent...
 
Bob,
The individual "company culture" will be the main differences between any union and non-union company. The unions have protected members jobs (to a point), depending on the union, the company and the business environment. The basic answer to the question is yes, they have protected the membership, because the companies have a "process" that they have agreed to follow. This is a short answer to an involved question. 🙂

Well the fact is that I work for money.

Job creation is not a function of unions, and now that they have been put in the position of being "responsible" for job creation at the expense of quality it has put unions exactly where corporations want them.

What union leaders have failed to realize is that unemployment becomes a burden on government, and who has the most control over government?-Corporations.

It is not the goal of government, and the corporations that control it, to make us all unemployed, just enough to make us desperate for work at any price. Thats why unions pushed for Unemployment benifits and Welfare. So people would be more resistant to exploitation.

The unions response should be that if they cant stop the company from moving jobs to third party vendors the unions simply organize the workers at the vendors. But to lower wages in order to try and prevent the company from moving them is self defeating for workers. They took the job because of the wage and the expectation that it would get better, not worse and the paid dues to a union to make sure of that.

Now the fact is that thousands of jobs were lost. We have less people working moving more people and freight than before, and they are doing it at reduced compensation. The airlines hit a grand slam-with the help of misgiuded or even corrupt unions. Would there have been more job eliminations? I doubt it. At Aa when the company said either reach this figure through concesions or we will have to lay off X amount of workers the Local representatives said -Lay off. The company then came back and said no, that if they laid off that many workers they could not operate.The companys bluff was called.

So jobs were lost and so were the pay and benifits that brought us into this industry and the unions were unable to do anything to stop it.

The unions gave the airlines drastically reduced labor costs and increased productivity.

The fact is that if we were all in one union we could have made out better.

The union could have taken the position that we were made promises after the abuses of Frank Lorenzo that BK would not be used as a means of voiding our contracts, therefore if any labor contract is voided then as a political protest all the unionized airline workers are going on a political strike.Economic strikes against a company as a means of gaining leverage to settle a dispute are controlled under the terms of the RLA but a political strike is basically a Boycott, which is legal.The political goal would be interpretation of legislative issues-the rules and powers of a BK judge.

The fact is the airlines and the courts ran right over all of us because there was no threat of resistance. If massive economic disruption due to a political reaction to the grossly distorted one sided interpretation of the BK laws was a possibility the Judges would have had to proceed more cautiously than they did.

Look at the figures, air traffic is not declining, nor is it expected to decline over the next few years. This is probably the only example of a growing industry where unionized workers wages are going down instead of up.

No matter what color is on the tails those planes are going to fly. They have to. In addition to the passengers there is freight. With todays "on demand" inventory shutting down the airline industry is not an option. As long as thats the case we have leverage no matter what they post as far as profits or losses. The challenge is to speak as one and let them know that we are not going to give our labor away.

The problem that we face is the structure of the industry. Our fates are tied to our company and whatever union may be in place. The unions, which are run as individual little corporations, see the elimination of another carrier as their opportunity to expand their membership without technically raiding. This is what drives the race to the bottom. The obsticles put in place to punish leadership that puts us in that race are formidable if not insurmountable.These obsticles make it so that having unions in place that are so ineffective may very well be much worse than not having a union at all.
 
the issue here is how fast the company will outsource everything it can to reduce unwarranted costs through contractual obligations if it had its way and would be gone pronto.
.
Again, also depends on where you work. M & R may indeed have protection. Don't know. F/S contract, with blessing of IAM, I do know, allows outsourcing NOW and for years to come. Protection is only there for those in hubs/large cities (so many flights per day.) I have no idea how may "west" cities would fall into the "throw them under the bus".
 
If there is a decertification there will be massive layoffs and all heavy mtc and ramp work the company can and will outsource it.

700 where do you get this stuff. When you compare non-union ramp at Delta, Continental to the US AIRWAYS predicament you will see that the non-union legacy carriers have almost twice the amount of fleet service as your IAM Iron-clad abrogated contract allows. Delta just contracted out some ramp cities but has plenty more ramp cities than your IAM agreed to at US AIRWAYS.

Actually, the opposite of what you say may be more true, i.e., that a decert will allow more flexible work rules and bring work in-house.

At any rate, with the IAM, fleet went from close to 100 cities to now only 11. Actually it was 9 but US AIRWAYS actually offered 2 more.

Remember, fleet doesn't have a collective bargaining contract...it has an abrogated one that is just stamped collective. Like Canale's letter said, "We had a knife to our back and a gun to our head." The union was powerless.
Why anyone feels compelled to pay for this current "contract" through perhaps as late as 2015 is a mystery to me. It's simply not worth $500 a year when you get unpaid sick time, complete loss of seniority, worst pay, worst holidays, worst overtime rate, worst vacation, worst worst. And the IAM said they want to keep this till 2009????? R U Kiddn me???????

regards,
 
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Again, also depends on where you work. M & R may indeed have protection. Don't know. F/S contract, with blessing of IAM, I do know, allows outsourcing NOW and for years to come. Protection is only there for those in hubs/large cities (so many flights per day.) I have no idea how may "west" cities would fall into the "throw them under the bus".
you're missing one big point...decert throws out the contract of that particular group and the company sees you as "at will" employees....
their rules,their wage,their benefits,their everything...no more agreed to practices or rules....
 
700 where do you get this stuff. When you compare non-union ramp at Delta, Continental to the US AIRWAYS predicament you will see that the non-union legacy carriers have almost twice the amount of fleet service as your IAM Iron-clad abrogated contract allows. Delta just contracted out some ramp cities but has plenty more ramp cities than your IAM agreed to at US AIRWAYS.

Actually, the opposite of what you say may be more true, i.e., that a decert will allow more flexible work rules and bring work in-house.

At any rate, with the IAM, fleet went from close to 100 cities to now only 11. Actually it was 9 but US AIRWAYS actually offered 2 more.

Remember, fleet doesn't have a collective bargaining contract...it has an abrogated one that is just stamped collective. Like Canale's letter said, "We had a knife to our back and a gun to our head." The union was powerless.
Why anyone feels compelled to pay for this current "contract" through perhaps as late as 2015 is a mystery to me. It's simply not worth $500 a year when you get unpaid sick time, complete loss of seniority, worst pay, worst holidays, worst overtime rate, worst vacation, worst worst. And the IAM said they want to keep this till 2009????? R U Kiddn me???????

regards,

Again Tim I'll ask the question that I asked you about a week ago which you did not respond:


What's your story Tim Nelson?
Do you even work for US Airways anymore?
Are you even a US Airways Fleet Service employee?
I think everyone on this board needs to know your real agenda.
We saw it a few years ago when you filed for an election with not enough cards and we all had to wait for another full year before we could even re-file, which caused us to be non-union an extra year.
So whats your real agenda here?
I think everyone on these boards deserves to know the truth behind your actions.
 
Again Tim I'll ask the question that I asked you about a week ago which you did not respond:
What's your story Tim Nelson?
Do you even work for US Airways anymore?
Are you even a US Airways Fleet Service employee?
I think everyone on this board needs to know your real agenda.
We saw it a few years ago when you filed for an election with not enough cards and we all had to wait for another full year before we could even re-file, which caused us to be non-union an extra year.
So whats your real agenda here?
I think everyone on these boards deserves to know the truth behind your actions.

Is your name really Jimmy Neutron? If not what is your agenda and why do you have to hide behind an alias?

Before you call someone else to task you should come clean yourself. If you are not williing to give full disclosure just stick to what is said instead of who said it and why.


you're missing one big point...decert throws out the contract of that particular group and the company sees you as "at will" employees....
their rules,their wage,their benefits,their everything...no more agreed to practices or rules....
It also gives you the opportunity to get a new union and a new contract earlier than if you stay unionized.

Clean slate. Didnt the company pretty much take anything that was worth anything already anyway?
 

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