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Deep Doo-doo

Ronin, EVERYONE has taken pay cuts. As for the pilots, most have taken a 29% pay cut along with a bunch of work rule changes which lower pilots' overall compensation package. Myself and 2171 other UAL pilots have taken 100% wage cuts. Management's taken pay cuts and laid off personnel.
Are you really that stupid or just blinded by hatred to all management and pilots?

BLINDED BABY.... :lol:

Ok...a little perspective from the peanut gallery
(1) If I was given an industry backbreaking ridiculous pay increase that decimated both my company and soon other companies and then had to return 29% of it...I could live with it. I went 10yrs without a raise and lost 50% of that.

(2) You lost 2000 with only a 2 seat A/C configuration fleet and went from 9000 to roughly 7000. We lost over 6000 and went from 13000 to roughly 7000...we currently employ only 500 more mechanics than we have TOTAL pilots....am I missing something here???

(3) As far as I can tell, and as far as I can discern from the Indy guys...NO MANAGEMENT THAT I KNOW OF IN THE LAST 15yrs LOST THEIR JOB!!! I WATCHED 600 PEOPLE GO OUT THE DOOR AND MY FACILITY SHUT DOWN AND NOT ONE FREAK'N MANAGEMENT PERSON LEFT!!!! They all found a spot riding on OUR backs and guess what...they HIRED MORE while you're on the street and I'm heading that way!!!

Does it appear I'm a little upset.... :shock:
 
Ronin, under the previous pilot contract, my year two pilot salary was $78,000. Not bad, but certainly nowhere near what a pilot made in terms of inflation adjusted dollars ten years ago.
As far as the number of mechanics go, a lot of your job functions have been outsourced. I'm not happy with that, because I thought that UAL maintenance was the best in the business. I'm not as confident of outsourced work. However, this company is barely scraping along as it is. We all need to make sacrifices to keep the good ship United afloat; mine was an extended vacation without pay.
 
Boeing alert over jet cracks
By Steve Creedy
June 08, 2004
DAMAGE that grounded two Qantas jumbo jets has prompted an urgent worldwide examination of Boeing aircraft that has so far uncovered similar problems in more than 40 planes.

Experts fear the problem, in which damage caused by metal tools during aircraft repainting can lead to fatigue cracks, may be more widespread than first thought. Qantas grounded the Boeing 747s last year after engineers discovered a potentially devastating 70cm crack in in one aircraft's fuselage during maintenance.

The crack was in a strap used to knit sections of the fuselage together during manufacturing and could have led to a serious structural failure if left unrepaired. Marks on the damaged plane indicated the crack had grown from damage caused by the use of metal tools during repainting by previous owner Malaysia Airlines.

A report on the damage by Australia's Civil Aviation Safety Authority prompted the US Federal Aviation Administration to issue a global alert.

CASA said similar metal tool marks - known as scribe lines - had now been found worldwide on 32 Boeing 737s, four 747s and and seven 757s.

CASA spokesman Peter Gibson said he could not rule out an FAA airworthiness directive that would make aircraft inspections and urgent repairs mandatory.

Maybe there is a reason to worry about outsourced work.....but then again...maybe the company feels you are expendable 😀
 
The Ronin said:
Maybe there is a reason to worry about outsourced work.....
So Qantas is definitely outsourcing repainting? Or is that speculation?
 
I do not know if Quantas is outsourcing. I do know that United has dropped 2 OSV's that were doing our painting. I understand that we probably have this problem and inspections will be conducted soon to examine the damage to our fleet according to the engineer I spoke with.
 
The Ronin said:
Maybe there is a reason to worry about outsourced work.....but then again...maybe the company feels you are expendable 😀
Ronin, a few points.
1) I am very concerned about outsourced work. I want to see UAL mechanics doing everything on UAL jets. EVERYTHING.
2) I do not think that management furloughed pilots without cause. The industry took a nosedive in terms of RPMs, and the only viable solution was to reduce ASMs. When you reduce ASMs, you reduce your workforce. Plain and simple.
3) I do not think that every single management bean counter at WHQ is a heartless SOB who sleeps easily knowing that UAL's workforce has been reduced by approx 30%. I think that there are more than a couple management 'weenies' who lose sleep over this issue. However, the lifeboat can only hold x number of people. If you try to put on x + 30%, the lifeboat WILL sink.
It's not always easy to accept the fact that you're chum, but I am counting on people such as yourself to not burn down the house while I'm away. (In your case, I'm worried. Very worried.)
4) I am very impressed with Tilton. I hope that he stays after reorg, but I'm not counting on it. I think that he's made some very good (below the radar screen) changes in top management. I expect him to cut Jake Brace loose after UAL emerges; that's the last problematic old guard senior management person that I'm worried about. I hope that Tilton stays until 2020 when I hit the mandatory retirement age of 60. I like the senior management that Tilton has installed at UAL; give them time; they look like they can make this company great once more.
5) NEVER put a smiley face on the end of a sentence when you're talking about someone being expendable. Especially someone who's furloughed from the job that they loved. It's trailer park.
 
5) NEVER put a smiley face on the end of a sentence when you're talking about someone being expendable. Especially someone who's furloughed from the job that they loved. It's trailer park.

Expendable as in our safety not YOUR job dimwitt. My union representation both past and current are as responsible for the job losses as anything else. Instead of being pro-active and pliable with a changing economy their 1930 union mentality has shown its age, and their demise. Can you pay everyone the same rate for the various work areas....NO. But it was such a can of worms and then you have the SENORITY word, not to mention labor laws to the point that you can't really fix the problem unless you scrap the whole thing and start anew (of which they didn't do either). I don't give a rats ass about how long you or I have been here. You want to be in the game...then hit the books, keep up with the technology, and get in the mix everyday....PERIOD. If not, cut your carpet, play arts and crafts or tinker on some component and accept the pay rate or industry standard for performing such duties. And no, I am not going into who should do what or get paid what. If its an area you want, pays want you want, then bid for it. Meet the entry level requirements, pass the entry level test, pass your probationary period and pass your 6 mo or yearly evaluations based on performance to HOLD that position. But we can't do that...it might make you get off your dead ass. And thats just my world sir. Management....I work with everyday. Have some good ones, and those of you who work your butt off in ops know that I'm not talking about you. But take a walk with me as we stroll into areas you never knew existed. Want to see WHY you're not on the property...I can show you hundreds. All doling around and at minimum 70k a year I'd like to walk up and ask "what the f@&k do you do?" 😀
 
And you want to know why I dislike pilots....cause ALPA and it's members have hurt a lot of people with their greed. Respect and admiration for your job, of course. But I've known you guys from fighter flyers to bank check haulers. You walk, talk, breath, bleed and die like all other human beings I know. And what was done at UAL, what is being done at DAL and NWA is wrong. And little people who did not have your aspirations, just wanted that $12-$15 job don't even have that BECAUSE OF ALPA's PURE GREED. And why are you waiting in the wings....for the love? Or because your old time pilots have explained to you "this is the way it works...we've all been there, just hang on and when it's time you too can come back and take from the land of plenty." My friends WILL never have the opportunity to come back. It's over for maintenance. Your g@$%&m right pilots piss me off. 😀

And I always smile at the end....I learned that in anger management can't you tell?
 
A number of years ago during difficult contract talks at an airline the following letter was circulated:

"Lot has been said and written in the press concerning pilots' salaries and compensation. We have been told about how much it will cost our company, our job has been compared to others, and various subtle and not so subtle threats and intimidation tactics have been hurled at our group. In light of the current situation, please allow me, a pilot to give you a small glimpse into my world...

DON'T COMPARE MY JOB TO OTHER JOBS

...How many boardrooms explode over Long Island Sound?

...How many meetings conclude with hundreds of dead bodies?

...How many trucks cost $82 million dollars?

...How many doctors spend half the month away from their families?

...Do the children of media representatives cry when Daddy puts on his uniform to go to work because they know he'll be gone for a week?

...How many salesmen lose their jobs because they have high blood pressure?

...How many lawyers spent Christmas alone in a crash pad?

...When your wife is watching TV an the program is interrupted by a news flash of an aircraft accident, does she momentarily freeze in fear for what she might hear?

There is not another profession in the world where the consequences for mistakes are so catastrophic and unforgiving.

THE PRICE

...I pay the price when somebody loads full oxygen containers in the cargo hold

...I pay the price when a terrorist has a bone to pick

...I pay the price when loaders forget to set the locks

...I pay the price when engineers design a fuel pump not quite correctly

...I pay the price when Mother Nature decides to shift the winds...


YOU SPEAK OF THE COST

...Ask the CEO of Valu-Jet the cost of a DC-9 buried in the Everglades...The Cost..

...Ask Fred Smith the cost to scrape a DC-10 and MD-11 from the runways at Steward and Newark...The Cost

...Ask Korean Airlines the cost of a 747 that didn't quite make the runway at Guam... The Cost

...Ask Fine Air the cost to clean up a DC-8 off a Miami Street...The Cost

...Ask Bob Crandall the cost of a B-757 impacting a Colombian mountain...The Cost

...And if not for their Cool, Calm, Professionalism, what could have been the cost of a UPS B-727 that suddenly went dark and silent four miles above Chicago? How much were they worth to you that night? Industry standard or 25 % below? ...... The Cost

WHEN YOU TRY TO INTIMIDATE ME, REMEMBER

...It was I who flew Cobra gunships in the jungles of Vietnam while you worked on your Masters degree

...It was I who sat alone at the tip of an F-18 in the silent instant before I was catapulted over a cold, dark sea, while you slept peacefully in your bed

...It was I who, one night watched my wings grow heavy with ice, miles from the safety of the nearest airport praying that I had enough fuel to find clear skies, while you watched Monday night football

...It was I who flew a C-130 into Panamanian gunfire, while you decorated your Christmas tree in 1989

...It was I who faced head-on the fourth largest army in the world over the deserts of Iraq and brought it to its knees, while you watched it on CNN

...It was I who landed an A-6 on a floating piece of tarmac no bigger than your backyard, while you mowed yours

...It was I who orbited in unarmed tankers over enemy territory to replenish others sworn to protect you

...It was I who watched missiles and bullets blossom in my face, yet didn't turn and run, while you watched the flowers in your garden blossom

...It was I who buried a friend

...It is I who knows a little boy who will never play catch with his Dad, so that you may play with your grandchild

Sir, please don't try to intimidate me.

I am not your enemy, I am your asset, an asset who has experienced and accomplished things few others dare to try. Realize this and there few obstacles we can't overcome."


Author Unknown
 
AMR Cost Unit,

BRAVO!!! Well said. I can definitely relate to much of that.

Cheers,
Z B)
 
mweiss said:
So Qantas is definitely outsourcing repainting? Or is that speculation?
Quantas does the work in their own maintenance facilities and they are regarded as one of the best in the Asian/Pacific region.
 
BRAVO!!! Well said. I can definitely relate to much of that.

Yeah, me too...once I got really, really drunk and spewed projectile vommit everywhere....kinda like the same feeling I have right now 😀
 
WELL SAID!! -- to the AMRcostUnit (which has got to be one of the all-time monikers!)

Although the "Panamanian gunfire" line was kinda amusing.

Why don't pilots have a national union/payscale (paid by the TSA??) to level the playing field, provide job security and assure a steady stream of qualified pilots?

With this scenario I don't think you could expect DL-pilot wage levels, but you certainly could address the issue of $15K year regional pilots.

Airline pilots are part of the national security system.
 

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