Dawg. When DL begins the IND-CDG run is that from a previous route they took away? Also Ive heard DL is discontinued or will discontinue the PHL to CDG
Nope MCO/IND-AMS/CDG are new. DL did run MCO-FRA years ago.
PHL-LHR, EWR-AMS, PHL-CDG, JFK-SVO, JFK-ARN are going away. 1x JFK-LHR is switching over to Virgin.
Not trying to be tacky, but IND to CDG? That is not a route I would have ever thought could make it. What is to be the frequency on this route?
I think it will mostly be 5x weekly but some daily flying in the summer.
IND-CDG are routes that the JV help. The main reason it will work (if it works) is because people can fly both IND-CDG but also IND-PHL-XXX.
The issue, as I have said, we have seen more cuts. Yeah some flying has been added like this, but the sad fact is if they route ends up needing more capacity than a 767, AF will likely be the carrier to add it.
Oh also as said, IND is paying for the route.
Dawg, as someone I both respect and feels has a solid grasp of the big picture at DL and in the industry I’m very puzzled by your post here.
I understand how tactically JBVs without adequate limitations and monitoring can be concerning for airline labor, but I don’t get the rest of your post.
Capacity cuts on the whole are good for employees and all stakeholders except people purchasing tickets, boost yields and financial performance in the long run. Sure going from a 744 to an A359 may take ~120-150 seats out of the market and a few bid positions for F/As but working for a nimble, disciplined entity is in your interest. Do you remember when DL was flying their EIGHT 777s to MCO with low fare fodder? Sure some people liked bidding those trips on the big bird but it wasn’t an optimal allocation of company resources.
The seasonal and other examples you cite from ATL/JFK id largely put in the same bucket. But it’s also worth noting when you mention things like ATL-BOM/TLV/KWI/ARN/VIE/EDI (whatever others) that was different era for DL and the whole “we must fly to every global city from ATL” experiment didn’t go over so well circa 2006-08.
Like I said genuinely don’t mean to be inflammatory but I’m very puzzled by this posts although I recognize and appreciate your concerns on JBVs.
Josh
If that is all that is happening I would agree with you. Look at my first post with numbers. DL/NW is down almost 10 long haul airplanes. It would be even more if DL wasn't restructuring the trans-pac network. Had NW already set up those routes pre-merger then the 767s pulled from the JFK/ATL-spokes would have been parked.
Also, “we must fly to every global city from ATL” shows me how little you actually know about DL.
That wasn't the idea at all. The idea was to get the company closer to 50/50 ASM split between international and domestic. At the time DL was adding a lot of Euro flying from both ATL and JFK to try to balance the network out.
It is something Ed and Glenn have told the investment community they want to do again (DL is back to being closer 65/35 or even 70/30 at times) but have yet to really expand that airline or order the airplanes to do it.
Coming from USAIR it’s no surprise you don’t understand how JBVs work after all UA/CO/AC didn’t want US in their transatlantic JBV. In the case of AA DFW that is one example of where JBV has worked well for the base. BA/IB JBV enabled service to MAD since 05/2009 among with new seasonal flying to AMS.
Josh
uh. He is right. In general jvs are at best neutral for US employees but mostly nothing but negative. Sure you want the company to do well but at the same time, the company would be doing fantastic if they could fire all of us, become a virtual airline and outsource the flying to the lowest bidder. It would be pretty stupid for employees to want that.
I'm curious to see the actual nuts and bolts of this JV. So far all we've seen internally is a presser littered with gauzy buzzwords about "employee and customer-centric culture," and some very vague mentions of schedule coordination.
because they have no idea how much outsourcing they can do till they sit down with DALPA and come up with the agreement.
Same thing with Aeromexico and Korean. Only JVs that have agreements between the pilots and management is AF/KL/AZ, VS and VA.
