KCFlyer
Veteran
I didn't have much control over that since the air was booked thru the cruise line...US down, Delta back.
Delta pilots to strike?
- Thread starter luvthe9
- Start date
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
KC,
it's precisely because GE doesn't run an airline that they make money. Why would they want to mess w/ idiotic unions like ALPA when they can just keep sending the bills to the airlines and get paid, bankruptcy or not?
I think DL wants the court to tell ALPA they will give and it is up to them to do it voluntarily or she will extract it one dollar at a time from every one of their wallets. And she would sure enjoy doing that.
Nobody wants labor unrest but DL has been incredibly patient with its pilots. They collected UA plus 1 paychecks for years after UA rescinded them and were still overpaid relative to other airlines.
DL employees had a justifiable right to be well paid for years but those days are over. Yes, management missed some opportunities but I didn't exactly read any letters to the editor by DL pilots telling DL management they should be flying those 764s and 777s to Europe instead of Orlando.
DL will prevail because that is what bankruptcy law allows. It's time the pilots recognize the good days are over. If they don't like the new reality and think they are so valuable to the world order, I suggest they join the droves of mechanics that are apparently leaving and finding good jobs elsewhere.
And above all else, don't screw the customers that are still willing to support the company that was high-flying for years while paying the salaries of the non-pilot employees who may not be happy about their job but are trying to make it work.
it's precisely because GE doesn't run an airline that they make money. Why would they want to mess w/ idiotic unions like ALPA when they can just keep sending the bills to the airlines and get paid, bankruptcy or not?
I think DL wants the court to tell ALPA they will give and it is up to them to do it voluntarily or she will extract it one dollar at a time from every one of their wallets. And she would sure enjoy doing that.
Nobody wants labor unrest but DL has been incredibly patient with its pilots. They collected UA plus 1 paychecks for years after UA rescinded them and were still overpaid relative to other airlines.
DL employees had a justifiable right to be well paid for years but those days are over. Yes, management missed some opportunities but I didn't exactly read any letters to the editor by DL pilots telling DL management they should be flying those 764s and 777s to Europe instead of Orlando.
DL will prevail because that is what bankruptcy law allows. It's time the pilots recognize the good days are over. If they don't like the new reality and think they are so valuable to the world order, I suggest they join the droves of mechanics that are apparently leaving and finding good jobs elsewhere.
And above all else, don't screw the customers that are still willing to support the company that was high-flying for years while paying the salaries of the non-pilot employees who may not be happy about their job but are trying to make it work.
DL Gold Medallion
Member
I wanted to note that everyone here is jumping on management for screwing up the airline. i think it's clear that leo Mullin did royally screw up Delta. However, I think it's unfair to lump Grinstein in with Leo. Grinstein seems to have made a lot of progress in bankruptcy, and I think Dleta is making a lot of the right moves. The fact is they do need these cost cuts to survive into next year. With a few months I think the airline can really be making positive strides.
And it would help if they would stop selling me $128 transcons.
And it would help if they would stop selling me $128 transcons.
Listen, I still think you are an idiot!Delta Pilots choked the goose that lays golden eggs back in 2001 with the "United +1%" mantra. Now that the goose is sick and can't lay eggs,
there drumming up a "Our airline, our contract" mantra.
Wasn't it their airline when they were choking the goose back in 2001 as well? I guess not.
Anyhoo, I really hope the DL Pilots strike and put Delta out of business. It will just give us the perfect opportunity to swoop into ATL and own the entire eastern seaboard.
I just returned from a 3 day trip and talked to every pilot about this issue, which was about 12. ALL of them realize that they will take major cuts and not one said they would support a strike that would put DAL out of business. Every one of them have downsized homes, cars etc. My gut feeling is that if it came to a vote, over half would vote for the cuts as opposed to the alternative. JMO..
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
I have friends who are DL pilots and they too recognize that "it is what it is". They also realize that the the Delta world would be very different if ALPA had contributed earlier.
And all of the pilots who want to blame Leo for the problems should recognize that he was the one that agreed to the huge pay raises for DL pilots in 2001. The amount pilots as a group got far eclipsed what Leo and his friends took from DL. Leo had no grasp of the nature of the airline industry but he threw the money around at the same time that he grabbed big handfuls for himself.
And all of the pilots who want to blame Leo for the problems should recognize that he was the one that agreed to the huge pay raises for DL pilots in 2001. The amount pilots as a group got far eclipsed what Leo and his friends took from DL. Leo had no grasp of the nature of the airline industry but he threw the money around at the same time that he grabbed big handfuls for himself.
NewHampshire Black Bears
Veteran
Is DALPA really bluffing ??
Personally, I "THINK NOT" !!!!!!!!
Anyway,
I'm predicting that DL, WILL show up in court tomorrow, and WILL NOT "directly" ask the court to throw out DALPA's contract !!
IMHO, tomorrow will bring a "wink and a nod" by DL, suggesting to the judge, that a 30 day (type) "cooling off" period by ordered instead.
WHY ??
Because DL is SCARED #### that DALPA really means it !!!!!!!!
IF DL stride's into court 8-10 hours from now, and does ask directly for DALPA's contract to be thrown out, then I'll be back on this thread admitting I was wrong !!!!!!!!!
Everyone. Listen real close. Can't you hear the constant ringing of "GE's" phone, in DL's ATL office, wanting to talk to GERRY, to see if DL can "soften" (somewhat) their approach . :blink: :blink:
NH/BB's
======================================================================
===
I WAS WRONG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As promised, I'm admitting I was wrong, about DL management !!
IMHO, If DL winds up in BK-7, the pilots won't shoulder 100% of the blame.
When DALPA asked DL, "What did you do with the "last" concession money we gave you, it was/IS a legitimate question !!
So now we wait for the "next shoe to drop" !!
NH/BB's
Ummm...I KNOW! I KNOW!!
Let me just guess that they spent it on fuel! Especially if it wasn't as much as was asked for.
That's what I continually don't understand. $x amount is needed but the concession is for 50% of x and then there are still complaints that "our concessions didn't save the world". Well if you only give a small portion of what is asked for, of course it won't help.
Let me just guess that they spent it on fuel! Especially if it wasn't as much as was asked for.
That's what I continually don't understand. $x amount is needed but the concession is for 50% of x and then there are still complaints that "our concessions didn't save the world". Well if you only give a small portion of what is asked for, of course it won't help.
Looks like DL management called their bluff. In my opinion, the DL pilots will just accept it like the pilots at the other airlines have done and do nothing. And if the pilots do end up striking, then I will come back and say I was wrong. But for now it looks like they have been totally beaten.
whodoyouthinkyouare
Member
- Sep 15, 2005
- 40
- 0
Sorry...I meant to say elastic...you are right. I would say "annoyingly" elastic in the sense that there is a greatly exponential shift in demand when the price changes minutely (as you mention). And even in times when carriers ALL charge a higher rate for a period of time, the overall bookings drop significantly b/c we have had 20+ years of pax believing that a $198 transcon is to be expected and anything more is ridiculous (I, myself, have a hard time swallowing the $298+ transcon roundtrips which really should be the rock-bottom offerred). But I constantly read from people not-in-the-know on these boards that the carriers have full control over what they can charge. They do not. Part of that is that the customers just will not go much higher and the majority is due to the fairly recent ultra-transparency that the internet has provided. The pricing system is not broken but the distribution system does need to be "tweaked" somewhat to give the carriers an edge. I get robbed everytime I buy my razor blades ($20 for 4 friggen blades) but if EVERY store was more or less forced to charge a lower rate of say...Costco, I would buy them more often and happily. Unfortunately, that would mean that they would no longer be making money.
Now...BOB...your posts are useless and idiotic. What is your point other than "I can't think outside of union"?
And Kil...the industry may need a "capacity adjustment" but not of the magnitude of DL. That would actually stress the industry rather than alleviate its woes. I also hope that something catastrophic happens at your workplace and you are jobless
Agreed. Ultimately capacity has to be reduced to the point where the airlines do have some upwards leeway in pricing. Unfortunately this means parking planes and laying off employees, it's not pleasant at all but it is the cold hard reality the US majors face.
DalMD88
Senior
I think we may be reaching that point. I did a quick nonrev trip to upstate NY on Tuesday. A real travel backwater area on the lightest day of the week. When I got to ATL in the Am I almost couldn't park. Most of the remote lots at ATL were full. A couple of travelers on the shuttle bus remarked how full the airports are now. I know at DL our pax loads are coming up to pre 9/11 numbers. Today in Grinstien's weekly update he said our revenue is up also, 9% over last year at this time. i saw an artical in last weeks paper. Don't look for holiday deals. The planes are full. The fares are up.
whodoyouthinkyouare
Member
- Sep 15, 2005
- 40
- 0
Hopefully. As soon as revenue matches expenditure I hope Delta takes a breather and figures out a way to improve things without decimating the workforce any further.
The pilots will accept the cuts. Cooler heads will prevail. It's tough to take the cuts because they have become accustomed to living on the wages they take home now. But if you think about it rationally, it's not that bad. If the average pilot make 125k and they take a huge cut of say 30%. They still make over 87K a year. There are some who will quit over this because they can make more elsewhere. But the majority will stay because they cna't make this much anywhere else. Sure they'll be mad, but time will allow them to adjust.
If you go by these rankings DL is the #13 international carrier (RPK's). Which includes all world carriers. The lastest issue (NOV) of ATW (shown by your measure PAX carried) has DL #4 (international 4,024,000) behind AA-9,433,000, UA-5,054,00, and CO-4,609,000. Domestically DL is 2 behind AA, but Wn is rapidly catching up.
You can blame the pilots all you want but the fact remains that even if they gave much earlier DAL would still be where they are now, in BK.
Bottom line: one billion per year from the pilots even for five years in give backs could not cover for poor management at DAL! The numbers just don't add up.
mistified
