Delta Starting to Challenge SWA in Atlanta?

[Silver Meteor]

Long time reader, first time writer.

I just got an actual letter in the mail from Delta that states the following:

• If I make Gold AGAIN this year, I get 25,000 bonus miles.
• If I make Platinum, I get 50,000 bonus miles
• If I make Diamond, I get 100,000 bonus miles.

Now the fine print says this offer is only good for people who got this letter, and I assume since I live in North Georgia, that this is the first direct response and challenge to Southwest as they get ready to come into Atlanta. If I must admit this is not a bad starting point to keep Delta flyers away from Southwest. This should be interesting once Southwest comes to Atlanta.

Did anybody else get this letter, or was this sent to only North Georgia people?

 

[eolesen]

Sadly, this forum isn't exactly friendly to discussing customer point of view issues... but discussed at length on Flyertalk:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-skymiles/1197678-targeted-promotion-reward-keepin-upping-status-silv-gold-plat-dia.html

Reading some of the comments on FT, the promotion looks like it is targeted less at Airtran/SWA in the ATL, but more targeted at top tiers who have either fallen a level or two due to not traveling, or who aren't traveling as much as what DL thinks they should... And there are more than a few loyal flyers over there getting miffed that they're excluded from the promo, because it's rewarding less loyal flyers, presumably at the loyal guys expense next year....

 

[Silver Meteor]

Thanks for the clarification on what to post on this board, and what not to post. I am in a "learning" mode, so I appreciate the advice.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Silver Meteor,
First, welcome to airline forums! We are glad you are here and hope that you will regularly contribute to the Delta and other forums. This is a unique forum… I think you have some of the most experienced and knowledgeable people about the industry here but you also have a lot of labor-mgmt tension – which is pretty common in the industry.
Let’s clarify that despite what some people want to say, there are no limitations on what can be discussed here. TO further make clear, the person who gave you such advice has a history of trying to interject himself into subjects based on his personal biases and by making assertions that are clearly not supported by fact.
Sorry that you were exposed to the dirty laundry on your first trip through the door… but there are those of us who welcome you and allow you to contribute what YOU want to contribute – which should be anything that is on your mind.
Your observations about DL’s strategies in ATL are astute… but I would also say that EOlesen is also correct that DL is targeting any potential customers they recognize as having been more loyal to DL in the past but are not now. DL is an incredibly tough competitor and there has been a lot of chat on various internet forums about what impact WN will have on ATL, how DL will respond, and how successful WN will be.
I think it is clear that DL is taking WN seriously. Despite WN entering a larger hub than they have ever entered before, they obviously strategically had to enter ATL and FL was the best way for them to gain sufficient mass. But it is also true that FL found it increasingly difficult to compete against DL as evidenced by their recent pulldown of ATL flights and their high percentage of connecting passengers; DL found from its own experience and WN knows as well that it isn’t possible to run a hub based on low fare connecting traffic any more, even for a low cost carrier… that traffic increasingly must go on nonstops or on a very limited basis on connections. WN is clearly going to try to increase its local market share but they also have to reduce the amount of connections – a very difficult feat to accomplish given that ATL is built on connections – in the past several years, DL has shifted a lot of the domestic connections to international connections which generate more revenue but ATL is still more of a connecting airport than any other which makes it a challenge for WN’s business model to work in ATL the way it works in other cities.
History shows that DL has never given up a hub – other than MCO if you call it a DL hub (DL did at one time) to a low cost carrier… to a low cost carrier - yet DL is still the largest network carrier in Florida. In SLC, DL and WN have maintained the same market share for years – and WN has about the same domestic market share in SLC that FL has had in ATL.
That said, DL is going to use all of its resources to limit WN’s ability to grow and establish roots in ATL. And one of those tools is the Skymiles program. So, yes, DL will throw around bennies to entice you. Take them and use them if they benefit you. DL is adding more customer service features than any other airline such as more first class seats, more Wi-Fi and in-seat IFE, and is adding overall seats to its domestic fleet to increase its ability to offer more seats competitive with low fare carriers while also reducing costs. Obviously the whole DL system benefits but DL is pulling out all the stops to protect ATL which is DL’s bread and butter. If you benefit in the process, it’s all the better.
Sure there are people who don’t want to see DL expand its roster of premium passengers in an attempt to keep DL as much “their” airline as possible. Don’t mind them… do what is best for you.
Once again, welcome to AirlineForums… We’re glad you’re here.
Again, speak your mind unfettered by the jaded opinions of people who too want to keep this board as their private domain to roam – and are threatened when someone calls their BS what it is….
Now that you have officially been given the whole house tour including the laundry room, feel free to roam it all and use and make it your own!

 

[eolesen]

Thanks for the clarification on what to post on this board, and what not to post. I am in a "learning" mode, so I appreciate the advice.

No need to worry about what to post -- there just aren't a lot of customers who post on these forums, primarily because employees and a few others have managed to run them one-by-one over time.

And you'll learn on your own who to ignore over time. Click on a user's name and you'll get an idea of their peer rating on the forums.

 

[WorldTraveler]

It would seem that the more intelligent position would be to discuss the topic at hand instead of continuing to drag out dirty laundry in some vengeful attempt to discredit someone else – or shut down a conversation that you may not be able to win. Let’s make it clear, E, that you, not me decided to drag out the dirty laundry one more time. Why don’t you let it go? The longer you persist the more you show how immature you really are.
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As much as you say you will ignore me, it is obvious you can’t because you can’t stand to not be able to get in the last word…. Newsflash for you… this is a public forum… if you want a private forum, set one up on your OWN site and you can pick and choose who you want to participate… but beware, nothing much of value will happen if you all you do is invite people to the party to affirm you – but that is apparently what you want. Those who contribute meaningful thought to the world are those that not only understand what other people are saying, even if they don’t agree with them, and then have the ability to interact despite the noise that the other side will make. You would be well to figure out how to do that.
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Specific to the discussion here, you will note that I find no fault in your thoughts on the actual discussion about WN and ATL… if you were able to focus on the topic at hand, we might actually be able to discuss something.
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Meteor,
again my apologies for "keeping you locked in the laundry room." feel free to continue the discussion that is of interest to you on its own merits....

 

[eolesen]

Don't worry, you're still very much on ignore. I got a PM from someone else asking how I had the audacity to answer a post on the DL forum without getting your permission first, and they'd copied in your little hissy fit.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Don't worry, you're still very much on ignore. I got a PM from someone else asking how I had the audacity to answer a post on the DL forum without getting your permission first, and they'd copied in your little hissy fit.

problem is that YOU are the one who drove away a new member by telling him what he could talk about.....
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YOU are the one who absolutely can't stand the thought that someone else can come along and challenge your perceived dominance of internet chat forums.... the arrogance wreaks from your blog:
I've been in the travel industry since Ronald Reagan was in office, and am currently working for one of the world's largest global distribution system and IT provider for travel agencies and suppliers. Prior to joining this company, I spent almost two decades working in various positions for People Express Airlines and American Airlines. I've been an active participant and a moderator on Usenet and web forums such as FlyerTalk.com, PlaneBusiness.com, and AirlineForums.com since the early 1990's.

Get the chip off your shoulder, admit you've been KOd a couple times by someone else and add something to the discussion at hand.

we are talking about WN and ATL... do you have anything worthwhile to contribute or not?

and then make IGNORE mean IGNORE. You only highlight your own paranoia by saying you're ignoring but then continue to post.

 

[FWAAA]

problem is that YOU are the one who drove away a new member by telling him what he could talk about.....
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YOU are the one who absolutely can't stand the thought that someone else can come along and challenge your perceived dominance of internet chat forums.... the arrogance wreaks from your blog:
I've been in the travel industry since Ronald Reagan was in office, and am currently working for one of the world's largest global distribution system and IT provider for travel agencies and suppliers. Prior to joining this company, I spent almost two decades working in various positions for People Express Airlines and American Airlines. I've been an active participant and a moderator on Usenet and web forums such as FlyerTalk.com, PlaneBusiness.com, and AirlineForums.com since the early 1990's.

Get the chip off your shoulder, admit you've been KOd a couple times by someone else and add something to the discussion at hand.

we are talking about WN and ATL... do you have anything worthwhile to contribute or not?

and then make IGNORE mean IGNORE. You only highlight your own paranoia by saying you're ignoring but then continue to post.

WT, I don't know why you seem to have a giant axe to grind with eolesen, but I didn't read his initial post to the OP as "running him off" or telling the OP "what he could post about."

Rather, I read eolesen's post as a friendly "there aren't many frequent flyers here and in part that's because airline employees have generally dominated the discussions at this site and you might find a more receptive audience at Flyertalk (or milepoint or travelingbetter). I didn't read anything into his post as unwelcoming or authoritarian. Your posts in this thread, on the other hand . . .

If I were new here (like the OP), I'd read your posts, wonder what kind of asylum I'd stumbled into, back away slowly and never grace this site again. Seriously.

And as a matter of netiquette: When you quote someone, why not indicate the quote with either quote marks or with html tags? For a minute, it looked to me like you and eolesen had an awful lot in common. Then I finally realized that you were quoting him without any of the traditional signals.

 

[WorldTraveler]

perhaps you didn't pick it up but it's pretty clear what E meant... and the fact that he has taken every opportunity to escalate every argument we get into demonstrates that it is he, not I, that can't walk away from the tit for tat.
Here's what he wrote... and then he followed that up by suggesting that users click on user names to figure out who to ignore... even though E himself can't do it... or that I really give a frog's fat backside what anyone here thinks about what I write....

Sadly, this forum isn't exactly friendly to discussing customer point of view issues... but discussed at length on Flyertalk:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-skymiles/1197678-targeted-promotion-reward-keepin-upping-status-silv-gold-plat-dia.html

Reading some of the comments on FT, the promotion looks like it is targeted less at Airtran/SWA in the ATL, but more targeted at top tiers who have either fallen a level or two due to not traveling, or who aren't traveling as much as what DL thinks they should... And there are more than a few loyal flyers over there getting miffed that they're excluded from the promo, because it's rewarding less loyal flyers, presumably at the loyal guys expense next year....

I have stated before and I will state again that my purpose on these forums is to post what is factual and to blow through the BS...

here is the post from this thread http://airlineforums.com/index.php?app=forums&module=post&section=post&do=reply_post&f=32&t=50566&qpid=791701
in which I challenged E that even his own evidence wasn't sufficient to prove that there was a policy called "trip in vain" which he was convinced existed.

​

You finally agreed with what I said at the very first which is that DL has no obligation to do anything beyond what they did for the customer.. .and they exceeded by a wide margin.

Your claims of what you really want ring as shallow as your inability to hear and understand the truth.... you would indeed rather pick a fight.

I'll play the role of the gentleman and allow you to get the last word in since you obviously are incapable of spelling the word let alone understand the concept...

BTW,
the thread you posted about DL on Flyertalk specifically said that DL does not do trip in vain and the dialogue the elite passenger had with the MSP Skyclub and the subsequent elevation of his request for reconsideration of the deduction of DL's requirement that they deduct in that case $189 from the refund for an ORD-MSP RT was exactly what happened in the case used by the OP here.
So, despite your industry knowledge, E, I stiill will say that DL does not use the trip in vain argument much if at all and it certainly doesn't exist in their tariffs.

It doesn't exist in the tariffs of other airlines either and whether they use them or not doesn't really matter to DL; if DL finds that they are losing passengers because they actually expect people to pay for their flights if they want to bail out or stick w/ the delays, then DL will change its policies.

but here are a few other quotes from your "proof" of trip in vain (did you even read the threads)
this is from the AA thread:
First: They are fully within their rights as stipulated by the Conditions of Carriage:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Conditions of Carriage
Involuntary Refunds
In the event the refund is required because of American's failure to operate on schedule or refusal to transport, the following refund will be made directly to you -

1. If the ticket is totally unused, the full amount paid (with no service charge or refund penalty), or
2. If the ticket is partially used, the applicable fare for the unused segment(s).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conditions of Carriage
In addition, if the ticket to be refunded is no longer valid for transportation, an administrative service charge will be assessed upon refund of the ticket.

Second: If you hadn't noticed, the airlines of today would shudder at just the thought of what you suggest - a full refund. These are the same people that brought us non-refundable $250 co-pays to upgrade a one-way international flight when we use miles we already earned by spending money and time flying on their airline. These are the folks that brought us $75 expedite fees, $5 and $10 ticketing fees, $100-$250 changes fees, $100 mileage redeposit fees, and not to mention the administrative service charge that is assessed upon refund of the ticket. So, you think they are going to give you a full refund for a ticket on which you actually flew the two longest legs? Hint: the answer is NO.

Third: Why did you not consider the option of renting a car, which AA probably would have provided you a voucher for payment, and driving to Green Bay? It is only about a 3 hours drive.

AND
In the event the refund is required because of American's failure to operate on schedule or refusal to transport, the following refund will be made directly to you -

Involuntary Refunds

1. If the ticket is totally unused, the full amount paid (with no service charge or refund penalty), or
2. If the ticket is partially used, the applicable fare for the unused segment(s).

AND
I don't believe there is an official "trip in vain" policy, although all the airlines are familiar with the terminology. This thread may prove useful, if not especially encouraging. Mileage credit is unlikely, especially if you get a partial or full refund.

AND
I've been in this situation and the only option I had was to keep traveling in a forward direction even though it meant I had to continue traveling when I meeting I had been planning to attend had gone on without me due to weather delays.

I asked 'can't I just abort and go home?' and was told that would require reticketing; so I kept on flying until I reached the city where my meeting had been and then started flying home again.


So, even if the evidence you provided to convince me and everyone else that other airlines do infact use trip in vain doesn't say that at all - at least for DL and AA which are the only two airlines that the passenger could use on EVV to NYC, right?




last few quarters I have seen DL at or near the top of the US network industry in financial performance- so I don't think there is alot of fear on their part that they don't know what decision they made with this guy or others.

so to summarize,
I said all along that DL didn't have an obligation to offer the guy a full refund... thanks to you, you confirmed that not only DL but also AA have the same poicies.

I said that airlines don't allow passengers to bail out and return to their origin - your "evidence"confirms what I've said - and they certainly don't give the pax the option to return to their origin and start the trip again at some point in the future at their choosing.

Airlines can make exceptions - but that wasn't the issue.... since you chose to argue that there was evidence that airlines actually do allow it... haven't seen the evidence YET. All the evidence that airlines HAVE made exceptions doesn't mean they will - or are required to. For every example in your evidence of some type of exception being made, there were examples of people not being given it too.

you have been trying to argue to me and everybody else about how you aren't arguing - but you clearly are wrong - and in your zeal to continue the discussion and prove me wrong, you can't even find the evidence to support it.

So, E, how about you give it up and admit from the very beginning you stuck your nose into a conversation solely for spite... there's nothing wrong w/ admitting it.... but pretending you are right when you are clearly wrong REALLY goes a long ways to shredding what little credibility you might have had.

And surprisingly, E, decided he no longer wanted to discuss the topic at hand and instead wanted to turn the rest of his participation in that thread and every other since into a personal pi78ing match.
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If the fool would just admit he was wrong - or at least be smart enough to just shut up and let the darn thing blow over, no one would really give a rip. Instead, he tries to convince everyone else that he is right - when it is perfectly obvious he was wrong and didn't have the brains to know when to bow out of the conversation.
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He ventured right back into it more recently by being convinced he knew what DL's ready reserve policy was - and was proven wrong.
Difference is that Kev is not the bulldog I am (does that mean I can't fly Delta?) while I proverbially "take no prisoners."
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The fact that you and I can manage to have a discussion despite the fact that we have differences of opinion about subject matter shows that I welcome dialogue but I have no tolerance for BS or personal attacks and an unwillingness to admit you are wrong when you clearly are.
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You are smart enough to know when to walk away - and to stick to the topic at hand.
I would suggest you "reach out" and coach Eric...
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Regardless of how it was meant, telling anyone that the topic they brought up wasn't exactly the way to welcome anyone to your house...
as for the use of quotation marks, sure it would have helped but it was preceded by a reference to E's own blog (the reply was to him) and a colon 🙂).
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again, I appreciate your feedback and if you can convince Eric to simply walk away from the bruises he received in his KO, we might be able to return airlineforums to a site where people are free to exchange ideas.... where people like me who are confident in what they write and wiling to admit when they are wrong will thrive.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

perhaps you didn't pick it up but it's pretty clear what E meant... and the fact that he has taken every opportunity to escalate every argument we get into demonstrates that it is he, not I, that can't walk away from the tit for tat.
Here's what he wrote... and then he followed that up by suggesting that users click on user names to figure out who to ignore... even though E himself can't do it... or that I really give a frog's fat backside what anyone here thinks about what I write....

Dude, I don'tnow what you're smoking to 'pick up' bad vibes from E's reply to the original post. All I read is that E said this woldn't necessarily be the best place to get feedback regariding the topic. I don't know how you managed to turn this into yet another discussion of how you and DL are superior to other people and airlines, respectively.

 

[QA4Jet-A]

problem is that YOU are the one who drove away a new member by telling him what he could talk about.....
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YOU are the one who absolutely can't stand the thought that someone else can come along and challenge your perceived dominance of internet chat forums.... the arrogance wreaks from your blog:
I've been in the travel industry since Ronald Reagan was in office, and am currently working for one of the world's largest global distribution system and IT provider for travel agencies and suppliers. Prior to joining this company, I spent almost two decades working in various positions for People Express Airlines and American Airlines. I've been an active participant and a moderator on Usenet and web forums such as FlyerTalk.com, PlaneBusiness.com, and AirlineForums.com since the early 1990's.

Get the chip off your shoulder, admit you've been KOd a couple times by someone else and add something to the discussion at hand.

we are talking about WN and ATL... do you have anything worthwhile to contribute or not?

and then make IGNORE mean IGNORE. You only highlight your own paranoia by saying you're ignoring but then continue to post.

Gentlemen, What a fine way to show a Newbie how this Forum operates. May I suggest you both take it to a Private chat or some other means of communicating? I respect both of you and your opinions but this banter is a tad much IMO.

 

[FA Mikey]

History shows that DL has never given up a hub – other than MCO if you call it a DL hub (DL did at one time) to a low cost carrier…

I guess you write your own.... Hows that DFW operation working out for you?

 

[WorldTraveler]

I guess you write your own.... Hows that DFW operation working out for you?

and what LFC operates at DFW that DL ran from?

Gentlemen, What a fine way to show a Newbie how this Forum operates. May I suggest you both take it to a Private chat or some other means of communicating? I respect both of you and your opinions but this banter is a tad much IMO.

I couldn't agree more.... and I'll go so far as to say that I have initiated private chats with the party in question only for him to post the content of those chats on the public forums. I wouldn't call that gentlemanly behavior at all, would you?
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The intentions of the first reply to the thread became abundantly clear with his subsequent replies; whitewashing his initial post is impossible in light of the later responses.
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It is possible to be able to have dialogue with people that you don't agree with and still maintain standards of civility.... but when the discussion is reduced to personal attacks and broken personal confidences (posting content that was not intended for publication on the forum), I directly go to the heart of the issue and bring it right to the front for all to see if you aren't willing to deal with me one on one... I let a whole lot roll off of my back and have had my share of people poop on me....For the party in question, they have had many opportunities to admit they were wrong on both the substantative issues of the forum and their personal treatment of me... since they have refused to do either, they'll bear the consequences of their decision.
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the obvious solution is to deal w/ me and the issue one on one... continuing to engage in passive aggressive behavior by festering the wound and lashing out when they should have stopped a long time ago won't work.....
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now, the issue is DAL and SWA at ATL.... in normal times, this would have been an interesting study... in the pressure cooker environment that will be 2011's fuel price runup (where DL and WN have paid very similar recent historical fuel prices), the comparison gets even more interesting....
and then when you add in the possibility of other weaker players in the industry, WN might find that it makes more financial sense to prey on someone else... that is precisely what they did during the middle of this decade when they focused their growth on DEN and PHL... and at least in PHL, have found resistance against US and have slowed their growth plans there.

 

[FA Mikey]

and what LFC operates at DFW that DL ran from?

My mistake I forgot you qualify everything to make your point, and put Delta in the best possible light.

When you said Delta has never run from a hub I wrongly assumed you were saying Delta never ran from a hub. When what you were doing was trying to say was, why yes Delta has run from a hub before, just not in the small context you created to paint Delta in the best possible light.