Delta's upcoming order for wide-bodies

[topDawg]

DL has used the 764 to S. America year round.

GRU only and it was back when Delta only had 1x daily ATL-GRU. This summer will see the 764 come back but last summer ATL-GRU/SCL/EZE/GIG JFK/DTW-GRU were all 763s. 
 
Looks like JFK-GRU and ATL-GIG are loaded as a 764 this summer. (our summer) 
 

DL is going to have some engines being pulled from service with ANY fleet replacement.

Really? I figured Delta was still doing RB211-22 overhauls even though the L10s have been gone for years? 
 
 
No s**t dude. the difference is, for the most part, Delta has been replacing in-house engines with in-house engines. (2037s for CFM56-7s) or outside engines with outside engines (Little JT8s with BR715s) They have done a little bit of inside with outside engines (2037s with V2500s)
 
In this case Delta is going to be replacing in-house engines with outsourced engines. (PW4000s/CF6s with 10E/WXBT7000)  
 

The new Rolls engines will not need overhauls for years from now. We all want answers but it isn't clear at all what DL will do.

All we can do with go with what data we have. 
 
A) The T7000 and TWXB can NOT be overhauled in Atlanta. The test cells are simply to small (and before anyone says it, MSP is even smaller) 
B) Delta has signed a TotalCare agreement which the basic agreement is parts support and overhaul services done out of house. 
C) Had Delta and Rollers entered into an agree with a JV or for TechOps to become part of the TotalCare network I believe we would know this by now. Honestly a JV with Rollers to do the XWB (only shop in the US and I think three or four in the world) and the T7000 (only shop in the world right now, however I can't see the Singapore shop not doing them as they have T1000s and TXWB which is basically what a T7000 is. ) would probably push Delta over the 1 billion mark they have been longing for. Why you wait to announce that along with tell your employees that they aren't losing work now I don't know. Also your going to want to start drumming up work ASAP. 
D) while the engines wont need overhauls for a few years, Delta would have to start investing into the tooling soon and building the facilities to handle the work quickly. Can't build a test cell overnight. (along with I would assume moving shops(adding space for those shops) around to get the room for two more engine lines) 
 

I want as much work done by DL as possible. I hope DL has negotiated a deal for DL to bring that work inhouse.

As it is right now Delta has not negotiated a deal to do the work in-house. 
 
At best now its a JV deal like TAESL. If it was an in-house deal then they would not have signed up for TotalCare. 
 
I would be more than happy with a JV as long as its Delta employees doing to the work, like TAESL. I would prefer Delta to go to bat for the MRO like AF has however and gotten a deal where its a true in-house engine. 
 

If DL had split the order between Airbus and Boeing it might have been even harder for that to take place.

 I'm not sure how you come to that. If it would have been a Boeing order or a split order then you still would be talking about 100 engines. Had Delta gone with the 77L/789 order Boeing offered it would have been 25 789s, 5 77Ls and 25 339s. So we would be having the same talk but over the T1000/GEnX not the XWB. 
 

Baba. ..played golf with a couple of Virgin guys in jnb.....they think it is just the opposite . They say DL is calling the shots over there. Just goes to show you that you see things from your vantage point differently. They had nothing good to say about there previous leadership... But little to say about Branson himself... Made it sound like he was just a head piece not a leader....but who knows.

On the product side I see a lot of Virgin in Delta now. 
 

time out...

feel free to argue the point with Airbus.

here's a portion of their press release

The A330 Family has now attracted more than 1,300 orders. Over 1,100 A330 Family aircraft are flying with more than 100 operators worldwide. The A330 is one of the world’s most efficient aircraft with best in class operating economics. Airbus has committed to continuously improving the program since the A330’s service entry. The company spends approximately 150 million euros each year on enhancements and incremental improvements for the A330 jetliner family. The newest evolution is Airbus’ A330neo, which builds on the A330’s proven economics, versatility and reliability while reducing fuel consumption by a further 14 percent per seat. Comprised of two versions – the A330-800neo and the A330-900neo – this aircraft incorporates latest-generation Rolls-Royce Trent 7000 engines with 112-inch diameter fan for a 10:1 bypass ratio, more seats and new cabin features.

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/news-events-single/detail/delta-orders-50-airbus-widebody-aircraft/

but that doesn't mean the 339 is "bigger" 
 
I can go 2-4-2 in a new built 763, is it "bigger" than a 763 with 2-3-2? no 
 
And I don;t know if Delta will do the lavs on the 339 or not. I get it on the 739/32S but Idk if they will do them on airplanes that will be doing 8-12 hour trips.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

The A330neo has a larger wingspan, but the fuselage length is the same.
 
The additional seats space is gained from cabin improvements Airbus calls ICE.  6-10 additional seats.
 
From Airbus
 
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.airbus.com%2Fpresscentre%2Fpressroom%2Fpresentations-speeches%2F%3FeID%3Ddam_frontend_push%26docID%3D39551&ei=C9ZxVJXiFrSOsQTIrYG4Cg&usg=AFQjCNHy7sW1hIzgpOyxhChDsRQFzWjAAw&bvm=bv.80185997,d.eXY

 

[topDawg]

The A330neo has a larger wingspan, but the fuselage length is the same.
 
The additional seats space is gained from cabin improvements Airbus calls ICE.  6-10 additional seats.
 
From Airbus
 
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.airbus.com%2Fpresscentre%2Fpressroom%2Fpresentations-speeches%2F%3FeID%3Ddam_frontend_push%26docID%3D39551&ei=C9ZxVJXiFrSOsQTIrYG4Cg&usg=AFQjCNHy7sW1hIzgpOyxhChDsRQFzWjAAw&bvm=bv.80185997,d.eXY

and I am pretty sure the slightly longer wing is due to the new winglets they are putting on the NEO. I am fairly sure the wing itself is the same wing from the CEO. New tip and slightly changed twist. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

the 339 is a larger aircraft... winglets, heavier engines.

and Airbus based their sales campaign for the model on additional seats.

It is possible DL will not have any difference in the configuration of the 339s compared to the 333s but Airbus is marketing the 339 as a larger aircraft than the 333.


JFK-GRU and ATL-GIG have both been 764s for at least the last two Julys - peak season in Europe.

the 764 is not a one off aircraft for DL in S. America.

and given that the current 333s can't fly to GRU (it could fly GIG) the chances are very high that the 339s will end up in S. America unless DL chooses to use the HGW 333s.

you can take up your fear of outsourcing engine work with DL, Dawg, but the chances are decent that you will be put out to pasture before the 339s are ready for significant amounts of overhauls.

I suppose you have accepted that inhouse airframe overhauls aren't even possible so you aren't even mentioning that any more.

 

[jcw]

Oh my - we have gone to wings and engines - to say it's larger
 
You go to no lengths to rationalize yourself away
 
The fuselage - the main part of the plane - which everyone uses as the standard measure is the same
 
Good luck to DL with the new order - its good to see DL take some new aircraft for a change - although it's still the same sized aircraft

 

[WorldTraveler]

take it up with Airbus

 

[jcw]

bless your heart - you can't deal with the facts so now we need to take it up with Airbus
 
Almost to 15,000 obsessive posts
 
How many posts per day do you need to do to reach that goal?

 

[WorldTraveler]

I'm not obsessing by my post count.

you are.

I have no goal.

I simply respond to issues that are relevant.

you seem to be consumed with someone else getting a word in.

I come online and find plenty of days when dawg has responded and every active post has his avatar on it.


I ENJOY conversing with dawg because he writes based on his knowledge and perspective even if I don't agree with everything he says.

half of what you write is worrying about trying to keep up with me.

 

[jcw]

bless your heart
 
so there is only one person you enjoy discussing things with - that's insightful to how you think

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, there are plenty of people who are fun to discuss issues in the industry with.

if it was just one person, I'd pick up the phone or send an email.

there is only one other person besides you who has really expressed any concern about my or anyone else's level of board activity.

 

[jcw]

really - I think there is only one person on here that has been kicked off boards before

 

[WorldTraveler]

as if that has anything to do with this board.

you CAN'T STAND that someone else can manage to contribute to this board that you can't

get over it.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

take it up with Airbus

Okay...
 
http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/news-events-single/detail/reinforcing-airbus-widebody-leadership-a330neo-is-a-winner-at-the-farnborough-airshow/
 
"...and the A330-900neo, which uses the A330-300ceo’s fuselage length. ..."
 
 
BTW while airbus does mention the additional seats they clearly aren't basing the sales campaign on it. 
 
The launch announcement
 
http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pressreleases/press-release-detail/detail/airbus-launches-the-a330neo/

 

[WorldTraveler]

Airbus does say that the additional 6 or so seats contributes about 2% of the 14% of the 339s increased efficiency compared to the 333. I have seen presentations that show that the engines contribute the majority, extra seats are about 2%, and airframe efficiencies are worth a little as well.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Okay...
 
http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/news-events-single/detail/reinforcing-airbus-widebody-leadership-a330neo-is-a-winner-at-the-farnborough-airshow/
 
"...and the A330-900neo, which uses the A330-300ceo’s fuselage length. ..."

BTW while airbus does mention the additional seats they clearly aren't basing the sales campaign on it. 
 
The launch announcement
 
http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pressreleases/press-release-detail/detail/airbus-launches-the-a330neo/

Give it up TSH. The resident expert in chief of definition modification will rationalize his version of larger until every else stops posting about it.

His version of larger has been used by inadequate men forever.