DL BEGINS LAGOS SERVICE

[chucky]

Delta Expands Africa Presence With First Nonstop Flights Between Atlanta and Lagos, Nigeria
Monday December 3, 3:38 pm ET
Only major U.S. airline to fly to Africa builds on existing routes to Ghana, Senegal, South Africa

ATLANTA, Dec. 3, 2007 (PRIME NEWSWIRE) -- Delta Air Lines (NYSEAL - News) today inaugurates the only flights operated by a major U.S. airline between the United States and Nigeria with daily nonstop service between the world's largest airline hub in Atlanta and Lagos, Nigeria -- one of Africa's largest business centers. Delta, the only U.S. airline to fly to Africa, already offers service between Atlanta and Johannesburg, South Africa (via Dakar, Senegal), and between New York-JFK and Accra, Ghana.


``We are pleased to begin our next wave of service expansion between the United States and Africa,'' said Glen Hauenstein, executive vice president -- Network Planning and Revenue Management. ``As a leader in global aviation, we continuously look to develop high potential new markets. Africa has a significant and rapidly growing demand, and we're proud to be the only U.S. airline to offer service to the continent.

``Whether you are flying for business or pleasure, we offer our customers a wide variety of destinations through the world's largest connecting gateway operated by Delta in Atlanta. No longer do you have to connect in a European gateway in order to fly to Nigeria.''

During 2008, Delta will add a second daily nonstop flight between the United States and Nigeria with service between Lagos and New York-JFK, beginning June 9, 2008*. Delta also will add other African routes in 2008, including flights to Nairobi, Kenya (via Dakar, effective June 2)*; Cape Town, South Africa (via Dakar, effective June 3)*; and Cairo, Egypt (effective June 4)*. With this expansion, Delta will serve a total of seven African cities in six countries.



Story

 

[North by Northwest]

Smart move by Delta. Africa has been under served by US carriers since Pan Am. (afraid to step out of their Euro centric comfort zone)

Trust me...as soon as others smell Delta making money (oil/diamonds/ tourism) there they will "all of a sudden" discover...Africa.

London-Lagos is one of Virgin's top money maker. (premium)

 

[JFK777]

Its funny how history repeats itself with Delta flying all the way across the heart of the African continent to Nairobi, Kenya as Pan AM did Dakar for many years.

 

[dariencc]

Smart move by Delta. Africa has been under served by US carriers since Pan Am. (afraid to step out of their Euro centric comfort zone)

Yeah, like you would be in a position to know why US carriers haven't been flying to Africa.
<<<afraid to step out of their Euro centric comfort zone>>> Pleeaasse!

Trust me...as soon as others smell Delta making money (oil/diamonds/ tourism) there they will "all of a sudden" discover...Africa.

OK, we'll trust you. :blink:

London-Lagos is one of Virgin's top money maker. (premium)

And the relevance of Virgin's London route to this discussion is exactly what? London has the largest population of Nigerian expats as well as long standing business ties with their former colony.

Hey, you forgot to mention that Atlanta "lies on the great circle route" to Africa. Aren't some props in order for the Delta pilots who will "pioneer" that route?

 

[delta777]

Yeah, like you would be in a position to know why US carriers haven't been flying to Africa.
<<<afraid to step out of their Euro centric comfort zone>>> Pleeaasse!




OK, we'll trust you. :blink:




And the relevance of Virgin's London route to this discussion is exactly what? London has the largest population of Nigerian expats as well as long standing business ties with their former colony.

Hey, you forgot to mention that Atlanta "lies on the great circle route" to Africa. Aren't some props in order for the Delta pilots who will "pioneer" that route?

Fear not my fellow Delta employees, this is some disgruntled US Airways employee who is still pissed that Grinstein and the rest of Delta told his boss Doug Parker to go piss in the wind roughly a year ago. He's also mad LCC won't be going to any exotic locales like Africa any time soon, so he'll have to ID 90 on Delta of all carriers. Oh the humanity!!! Hey darien, you and ralphcramden still dating?

 

[luv2fly]

Fear not my fellow Delta employees, this is some disgruntled US Airways employee who is still pissed that Grinstein and the rest of Delta told his boss Doug Parker to go piss in the wind roughly a year ago. He's also mad LCC won't be going to any exotic locales like Africa any time soon, so he'll have to ID 90 on Delta of all carriers. Oh the humanity!!! Hey darien, you and ralphcramden still dating?

Yep, pretty sad. But then again, I would be pretty bitter too if I had to work for Parker. It's just hard to watch other airlines grow while yours can't get off the ground. BTW darien, how's that stock price doing?

 

[North by Northwest]

Yeah, like you would be in a position to know why US carriers haven't been flying to Africa.
<<<afraid to step out of their Euro centric comfort zone>>> Pleeaasse!

OK, we'll trust you. :blink:

And the relevance of Virgin's London route to this discussion is exactly what? London has the largest population of Nigerian expats as well as long standing business ties with their former colony.

Hey, you forgot to mention that Atlanta "lies on the great circle route" to Africa. Aren't some props in order for the Delta pilots who will "pioneer" that route?

Your intelligent retort based on facts and information, clearly substantiates your position. It must have taken a lot of research to come up with "Pleeaasse!"

How do I answer your next question so that a "fake" can get it? Virgin is an International airline. Therefore, it demonstrates that International airlines can make money in Africa. The USA has the largest Nigerian expat pop. in the world (contrary to your 'FAKE" knowledge of the world). Nigeria is one of the largest oil producers in the world (one of the largest oil exporters to the US). But of course you knew that from your "fake" friend who discovered the oil there.

As Africa's largest nation (population) with 140 million, along with being the US's largest sub-Saharan trading partner: (a little CUT AND PASTE INFO FOR YOU)

Nigeria is the largest U.S. trading partner in sub-Saharan Africa, based mainly on the high level of petroleum imports from Nigeria. Total two-way trade was valued at $30.8 billion in 2006, a 19% increase over 2005. Leading U.S exports to Nigeria were machinery, wheat, and motor vehicles. Leading U.S. imports from Nigeria were oil and rubber products. Nigerian exports to the United State under the African Growth and Opportunity Act (AGOA), including its Generalized System of Preferences (GSP) provisions, were valued at $25.8 billion during 2006, a 15% increase over 2005, due to an increase in oil exports. Non-oil AGOA trade (leather products, species, cassava, yams, beans, and wood products) totaled $1.4 million in 2006, almost double the amount in 2005. The United States was the largest foreign investor in Nigeria.

The United States remains Nigeria's largest customer for crude oil, accounting for 40% of the country's total oil exports. Nigeria provides about 11% of overall U.S. oil imports and ranks as the fifth-largest source for U.S. imported oil.

The United States is Nigeria's largest trading partner after the United Kingdom.

The U.S. goods trade deficit with Nigeria was $25.7 billion in 2006, an increase of $3 billion from $22.6 billion in 2005. U.S. goods exports to Nigeria in 2006 were $2.2 billion, up 38% from the previous year. U.S. imports from Nigeria were $27.9 billion in 2006, up from 15% from 2005. Nigeria is currently the 50th-largest export market for U.S. goods.

The stock of U.S. foreign direct investment (FDI) in Nigeria in 2005 was $874 million, down from $2.0 billion in 2004. U.S. FDI in Nigeria is concentrated largely in the mining and wholesale trade sectors.

I would say Delta did it's homework. (something you should try while in therapy)

And you forgot to mention your "fake" friend who surely must be the President of Nigeria or Virgin Nigeria. Clearly, the therapy hasn't produced any results yet. Stay with it, it usually takes a few years for a break through. In the meantime you can tell us some more about your "friends" at various airlines who were pioneers on the Great Circle route from NW, Cathay...US Air, Spirit.

Don't be hatin on Delta pilots. Surely you must have some that are "friends", as you do with every other airline...or did they spy a "fake" straight away?

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Your intelligent retort based on facts and information, clearly substantiates your position. It must have taken a lot of research to come up with "Pleeaasse!"

How do I answer your next question so that a "fake" can get it? Virgin is an International airline. Therefore, it demonstrates that International airlines can make money in Africa. The USA has the largest Nigerian expat pop. in the world (contrary to your 'FAKE" knowledge of the world). Nigeria is one of the largest oil producers in the world (one of the largest oil exporters to the US). But of course you knew that from your "fake" friend who discovered the oil there.

As Africa's largest nation (population) with 140 million, along with being the US's largest sub-Saharan trading partner: (a little CUT AND PASTE INFO FOR YOU)

Lets not get carried away. IMHO DL's flights to Nigeria will be / may already be profitable, right now I doubt there is too much room for more than a couple US carriers to provide direct service to Nigeria. Sure the population is 140 milliion, but what is their disposable income? How many trips to/from USA do Nigerian internet scam artists really need to make? "One of the largest oil exporters to the US" - I guess #5 means one of the largest? Don't get me wrong, there is definitely a market for US-Nigeria flights, but with global airline alliances and code-sharing it might be more profitable (or at least equally profitable) for a US-based airline to offer 1-stop service to Nigeria via one of their EU partner hubs rather then to use thier own widebody aircraft. Also, African countries have stronger ties, especially economic, to EU countries rather than to the USA (inspite of large expat communities in USA). Therefore BA, AF, LH, KL etc. will offer flights to many African destinations and make more $ on African routes than a USA based carrier could.

 

[North by Northwest]

Lets not get carried away. IMHO DL's flights to Nigeria will be / may already be profitable, right now I doubt there is too much room for more than a couple US carriers to provide direct service to Nigeria. Sure the population is 140 milliion, but what is their disposable income? How many trips to/from USA do Nigerian internet scam artists really need to make? "One of the largest oil exporters to the US" - I guess #5 means one of the largest? Don't get me wrong, there is definitely a market for US-Nigeria flights, but with global airline alliances and code-sharing it might be more profitable (or at least equally profitable) for a US-based airline to offer 1-stop service to Nigeria via one of their EU partner hubs rather then to use thier own widebody aircraft. Also, African countries have stronger ties, especially economic, to EU countries rather than to the USA (inspite of large expat communities in USA). Therefore BA, AF, LH, KL etc. will offer flights to many African destinations and make more $ on African routes than a USA based carrier could.

Perhaps it is you who should not get carried away in underestimating the growth of Africa or Nigeria economically. " How many trips to/from USA do Nigerian internet scam artists really need to make?" THIS is your support for your argument? This is the best your knowledge of world economies can do for a nation that has a population half the size of the EU? The world thought the same of China 40 years ago. (a country with no where near the oil currency that Nigeria possesses)

Let me get this straight, you think being #5 in exporting oil to the largest economy on earth is a joke? ("One of the largest oil exporters to the US" - I guess #5 means one of the largest?)

And I hardly think (even someone with a name like Frugul Flyer) one would put up with an out of the way stop to (what, 5-6 hours) Europe to Africa vs. a non stop...just to save a nickle.

The Chinese have locked on to Africa's vast natural resources like a Rottweiler...I guess they are interested in selling tea to Nigerian scam artists.

I suggest you read very intently the economic potential for Nigeria and Africa prepared by the World Bank (experts on forecasting world growth)

And don't fool yourself into thinking European airlines fly to Africa out of some silly affection derived from Colonialism...they fly there because of profit to be made.

http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/C...:258644,00.html

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Perhaps it is you who should not get carried away in underestimating the growth of Africa or Nigeria economically. " How many trips to/from USA do Nigerian internet scam artists really need to make?" THIS is your support for your argument? This is the best your knowledge of world economies can do for a nation that has a population half the size of the EU? The world thought the same of China 40 years ago. (a country with no where near the oil currency that Nigeria possesses)

Let me get this straight, you think being #5 in exporting oil to the largest economy on earth is a joke? ("One of the largest oil exporters to the US" - I guess #5 means one of the largest?)

And I hardly think (even someone with a name like Frugul Flyer) one would put up with an out of the way stop to (what, 5-6 hours) Europe to Africa vs. a non stop...just to save a nickle.

The Chinese have locked on to Africa's vast natural resources like a Rottweiler...I guess they are interested in selling tea to Nigerian scam artists.

I suggest you read very intently the economic potential for Nigeria and Africa as prepared from the World Bank (experts on forecasting world growth)

And don't fool yourself into thinking European airlines fly to Africa out of some silly affection derived from Colonialism...they fly there because of profit to be make.

http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/C...:258644,00.html

Perhaps you should learn to read and comprehend. I said that DL flights to Lagos may already be or will be profitable.*** In general it isn't a bad idea to fly to one of the countries on a continent that has oil / oil $$$. But there isn't really a market for more than a couple of US airlines to serve Nigeria (or many countries in Africa in general). UA could probalby make $ on flights to certain African countries from IAD (government busine$$) and CO form IAH (oil) and/or Newark (hub). Other US airlines? Maybe AA (from JFK or ORD)? Who knows?

***Although I don't know if DL is making such a killing on these flights right now. Just for sh!ts and giggles: on DL a round trip between DC and Lagos from Dec.13-27 is ~$1200. On AA/BA the cheapest economy price is $3200 and UA/LH cheapest economy was $4600. I realize it is not a very good comparison but why sell tickets at such a steep discount compared to what competitors are charging for comparable flights?

When you learn to read and comprehend you will note that I said African countries (in general) have a significant economic ties to EU. I said nothing about colonialism. EU-based companies (Peugeot, Bedford), probably do more business in Africa than USA-based companies (although there are exceptions), hence manu EU carriers offer flights to many African destinations.

I'll agre with you that Nigeria's economy is growing/expanding, thanks to its oil reserves. However the country has a GDP of ~$190-200 billion (47th) and per capita GDP of ~$1500 (165th). It is still a 3rd World Nation. 60% of the population of Nigeria is below the poverty line. The mean life expectancy is ~47 years and the HIV/AIDS rate is >5% (not to mention other health / disease issues).

So, as you can see, or should be able to see, while there is a market for direct USA-Africa (or USA-Nigeria) it is limited to just a few countries/cities. And with global airline alliances, it is more profitable for USA-based airlines to transfer passangers travelling to Africa via their EU alliance partners hubs. You, a NW employee (I assume) should know this or figure this out by just counting the number of daily flights NW has to AMS.

BTW - before you go on another cheerleading rant as how Africa is a goldmine for US airlines, would you care to comment on this passage taken from the same report that you 'read' and pasted a link to: “The number of people living on less than $1 a day could be cut in half, from 1.1 billion now to 550 million in 2030. However, some regions, notably Africa, are at risk of being left behind ... ... ... said Francois Bourguignon, World Bank Chief Economist and Senior Vice President."

 

[North by Northwest]

BTW - before you go on another cheerleading rant as how Africa is a goldmine for US airlines, would you care to comment on this passage taken from the same report that you 'read' and pasted a link to: “The number of people living on less than $1 a day could be cut in half, from 1.1 billion now to 550 million in 2030. However, some regions, notably Africa, are at risk of being left behind ... ... ... said Francois Bourguignon, World Bank Chief Economist and Senior Vice President."


BTW, I don't cheerlead...as CHEAP as that sounds coming from a frugal flyer.

What I can do in reply to the above is post the same exact sentiment about the Chinese economy 40 years ago, and where the wage of the average Chinese in 2007 is .65 cents.

Your reference to the lack of impressive economic trends in Africa is clear "One of the largest oil exporters to the US" - I guess #5 means one of the largest?)

And YES I would call being one of the top 5 as one of the largest oil exporters to the US.

It is ridiculous to think American businesses would just ignore a vast emerging market like Africa...natural resources, just because Europeans have a large business presence. By that analogy, there shouldn't be very many American carriers in Asia as European businesses where there before we were.

You've proven my point with your updated notation of the potential of other American carriers launching flights to various parts of Africa...based on money making opportunities, plain and simple...after Delta.


++++++++++++CHINA in 2007 (where every airline in the Western World is clamoring to get in on) just imagine where they'd be WITH oil/diamonds/vast ORE reserves.
THIS IS A READ, AND COPY AND PASTE, in case you have difficulty figuring that out...again.
There is no shortage of workers in China and a steady stream of people from the countryside means the country will have a low-cost labor force for decades to come. There are as many as 200 million "surplus" workers who are jobless in China's agricultural sector, says Banister's report. "As agriculture modernizes in China during the coming decades, hundreds of millions of agricultural workers will need other kinds of employment....Up to 500 million peasants are expected to migrate to cities in search of factory work over the next two decades." Moreover, there are plenty of unemployed workers in the cities seeking better jobs. The unemployment rate in China's rust belt in the northeast is 40 percent. Some estimate the true unemployment rate in China is 25 percent.

As a result, Chinese workers remain among the lowest paid in the world. The average total labor compensation for a Chinese manufacturing worker is 57 cents per hour, with many making far less than that, benefits included.

An average Chinese wage of $0.57 per hour -- or $104 per month -- is about 3 percent of the average U.S. manufacturing worker's wage, according to data collected by Banister. "Equally as striking, regional competitors in the newly industrialized economies of Asia had, on average, manufacturing labor costs more than 10 times those for China's manufacturing workers, and Mexico and Brazil had manufacturing labor costs about four times those for China's manufacturing employees."

The average hourly wage for a worker in a rural setting was $0.41 per hour, and migrant workers are making even less than that.

The average annual earnings for manufacturing workers in cities were $1,347 (11,152 yuan at the official exchange rate) for the year 2002. Manufacturing workers in the countryside averaged $837 (6,927 yuan) for the year. Urban manufacturing workers average 45.4 hours of work per week, "and it is...reasonable to assume that [rural] manufacturing workers average 50 hours of work per week in 2002," writes Banister.

There is a wide variation of pay among industries: textile industry workers averaged about 40 cents per hour (7,268 yuan per year), and garment workers outside of the cities "are paid less than that," according to Banister.

 

[dariencc]

Hey Twinkletoes, have you ever been to Lagos? Please give it a try, and you'll very quickly realize why the place has very little in common with China. The tourism potential which you have fantasized about does not exist. The place has ZERO potential for tourism. None.

This all makes great sense, of course, to the guy who thinks Detroit is the jewel of North America. Your proof of that was one of the great rhetorical masterstrokes of all time. A Wikipedia link about the Ford and Fisher families. Very relevant, indeed.

I doubt you considered the fact that none of the actual members of those old money families would be caught dead living in that sewer, recently honored as America's Most Dangerous City. I am sure they take great pride in one of the nations most underperforming school systems, and the resultant 47 percent illiteracy rate. Here's a link you might enjoy:

http://www.detnews.com/2005/events/0510/12/E01-345560.htm

Don't worry, the report is 2 years old. I'm sure the rate is much better now.

 

[dariencc]

Fear not my fellow Delta employees, this is some disgruntled US Airways employee who is still pissed that Grinstein and the rest of Delta told his boss Doug Parker to go piss in the wind roughly a year ago.

No, a lot has happened since then. Such as your board telling Grinstein to take his succession plan and piss up a rope.

He's also mad LCC won't be going to any exotic locales like Africa any time soon, so he'll have to ID 90 on Delta of all carriers. Oh the humanity!!!

Mad we're not going to Nigeria? How perceptive you are. Since I did have the "pleasure" in another life, I would greatly urge you to bid that trip. Exotic. Yeah, that's the word.

And if it's not too much to ask, could you ask the exotic delta pilots to please follow standard radio comm procedures and refrain from making position reports on the international distress frequency? This has gone on since you bought the Pan Am routes (and screwed their pilots :down: ). Enough already.

Hey darien, you and ralphcramden still dating?

On that subject, I couldn't help but notice how you and Twinkletoes hit it off.

 

[dariencc]

No, a lot has happened since then. Such as your board telling Grinstein to take his succession plan and piss up a rope.




Mad we're not going to Nigeria? How perceptive you are. Since I did have the "pleasure" in another life, I would greatly urge you to bid that trip. Exotic. Yeah, that's the word.

And if it's not too much to ask, could you ask the exotic delta pilots to please follow standard radio comm procedures and refrain from making position reports on the international distress frequency? This has gone on since you bought the Pan Am routes (and screwed their pilots :down: ) . I guess you had a better way to do things. :huh: Enough already.




On that subject, I couldn't help but notice how you and Twinkletoes hit it off.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

... ... ... in one of the nations most underperforming school systems, and the resultant 47 percent illiteracy rate.

I guess this could, in part, explain NbNW's reading, comprehension, spelling, grammar and critical thinking skills (or lack thereof).