DL/NW F/A Integration What is your guess?

[galleyguy4u2]

What do you think will happen with F/A integration? NW is union and DL is not so this will be interesting. As a former TWA f/a I sure hope you get a better deal than we got with AA.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

THIS should be an interesting thread.

 

[PHLfa88]

THIS should be an interesting thread.

It Will Depend On The Results Of The Voting For Union. The Voting Will Still Go On! If DL F/A's Vote FOR AFA Then It Is DOH.. If Not I'm Not Sure.. :unsure: Good Luck TO You All!! :blink:

 

[FA Mikey]

Without a union it is Deltas decision.

 

[North by Northwest]

Without a union it is Deltas decision.

Actually...it is not Delta's decision, it is arbitration "fair and equitable" per new Federal law. Now how the feds see that is "who knows".

 

[NAPAUS]

Actually...it is not Delta's decision, it is arbitration "fair and equitable" per new Federal law. Now how the feds see that is "who knows".

:down: :down: Well if history repeats itself NW f/as will be screwed! When will DL ever get back what they have FOR years dished out to everybody else. I for one hope that NW does NOT get sucked up by DELDA!

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Without a union it is Deltas decision.

This is the kind of 'Delta and I are at the center of the universe'--cultist thinking that just makes me scratch my head.

I know you probably don't read anything but the "My Delta" website, Mikey, but a new law was passed a few months ago that requires "fair and equitable" seniority integration. It was sponsored by Senator Claire McCaskill-D/MO. I'm sure you don't know who she is either because she doesn't appear in the Delta Digest or any other Widget periodicals.

 

[TWskyliner]

This is the kind of 'Delta and I are at the center of the universe'--cultist thinking that just makes me scratch my head.

I know you probably don't read anything but the "My Delta" website, Mikey, but a new law was passed a few months ago that requires "fair and equitable" seniority integration. It was sponsored by Senator Claire McCaskill-D/MO. I'm sure you don't know who she is either because she doesn't appear in the Delta Digest or any other Widget periodicals.

Mikey is AA...And I'm sure he has heard of Claire McCaskills bill.....It started as a grassroots campaign spearheaded by the former TWA flight attendants, because of their treatment by AA/APFA.

 

[Cajun Flyer]

What do you think will happen with F/A integration? NW is union and DL is not so this will be interesting. As a former TWA f/a I sure hope you get a better deal than we got with AA.

I think arbitration would be preferable to straight date of hire. Delta F/A's enjoy a much broader network and ALL flying is done from US bases. US based NWA flight attendants have much fewer great trips to choose from and I for one don't want senior NWA F/A's flooding into Atlanta and NYC to take away our best flying. We've got flight attendants as junior as 8 years holding great international trips out of NYC and seniority to hold international in Atlanta has come down as well. That would all go away if they give straight date of hire for bidding purposes. The career expectations as part of the equation in arbitration would help to keep current Delta flying with current Delta Flight attendants. NWA can keep all the flying they have, it won't bother me in the least.

 

[cooper43]

I'm starting to lean to the "fair and equitable" myself. At this time I dont see an advantage for DOH regarding DL f/a's. But I'm sure we will find out more info soon. In a previous post someone said that they would rather commute and fly NWA trips out of DTW than commute to NYC and fly trips out of JFK. I was just wondering what kind of intl trips do they fly out of DTW?

 

[Danny Campbell]

cooper43:

I'd like to share two messages from different emails I received tonight...

______________________________
FIRST ONE - from a NWA FA. She writes to me...

Danny, why are you spending all this time explaining to anti-union Delta F/As how they can best protect their seniority? If they want to fight us in arbitration, let's do it !!!!!!!!!!!!!! They have no contract... no voice...they are senior to us and they ARE GONG TO LOSE BIG TIME! STOP HELPING THEM DAMN IT....WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!xxxxx xxxxx

My Response -

Like it or not, we have a symbiotic relationship with them. Sure, we can fight and win a seniority arbitration and we probably will. BUT, what will the long term implications of that be? Will we lose our contract, perpetuate deep and lasting distrust and animosity and then neither of us will be better for it. Do you understand this?

SECOND EMAIL - From a Delta FA in Florida

I read your email to xxxx xxxxxxxx and want you to know that it is not true that we can get "less than date of hire" in a seniority decision. Delta's board told us that they will not enter into a merger agreement unless the employees seniority is protected. You need to get your facts straight! xxx xxxxxxxxx

My Response:

Guess what? Delta already entered into a 'merger' without any guarantee for your seniority. Do you have a firm decision from an arbitrator in your hand that tells you what your seniority will look like? Of course not....because Delta knows that they have NO CONTROL over what your seniority will look like. The only GUARANTEE for your seniority is if you join AFA - it will be "date of hire". If you don't join AFA, your management has no control over what your seniority is going to be, because the issue will be submitted to a independant arbitrator (i.e., like a 'judge') who will render a decision on the case. So, if you really think about it, Delta has already agreed to a merger with NO PROTECTION of your seniority. You choice now is to secure DOH or throw the dice (into the forum of arbitration) and pray the arbitrator does do what happened in the last case like this (USAirway pilots) and slot "us" (NWA FAs) ahead of you on a combined seniority list. Delta executives are already 'powerless' in this scenario...so their promise meant (and continues to mean) nothing.
____________________________________

Thought you'd like to see the entirely different vantage points I am dealing with from NWA and DAL. Weird, ain't it?

 

[WCT]

I believe any carrier even without Union rep., AFA bylaws protect both non union and union employees during an merger. And AFA is Date of Hire in all cases I am pretty sure. Just in case, I hope you Delta's vote in AFA quick!!

 

[cooper43]

cooper43:

I'd like to share two messages from different emails I received tonight...

______________________________
FIRST ONE - from a NWA FA. She writes to me...

Danny, why are you spending all this time explaining to anti-union Delta F/As how they can best protect their seniority? If they want to fight us in arbitration, let's do it !!!!!!!!!!!!!! They have no contract... no voice...they are senior to us and they ARE GONG TO LOSE BIG TIME! STOP HELPING THEM DAMN IT....WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!xxxxx xxxxx

My Response -

Like it or not, we have a symbiotic relationship with them. Sure, we can fight and win a seniority arbitration and we probably will. BUT, what will the long term implications of that be? Will we lose our contract, perpetuate deep and lasting distrust and animosity and then neither of us will be better for it. Do you understand this?

SECOND EMAIL - From a Delta FA in Florida

I read your email to xxxx xxxxxxxx and want you to know that it is not true that we can get "less than date of hire" in a seniority decision. Delta's board told us that they will not enter into a merger agreement unless the employees seniority is protected. You need to get your facts straight! xxx xxxxxxxxx

My Response:

Guess what? Delta already entered into a 'merger' without any guarantee for your seniority. Do you have a firm decision from an arbitrator in your hand that tells you what your seniority will look like? Of course not....because Delta knows that they have NO CONTROL over what your seniority will look like. The only GUARANTEE for your seniority is if you join AFA - it will be "date of hire". If you don't join AFA, your management has no control over what your seniority is going to be, because the issue will be submitted to a independant arbitrator (i.e., like a 'judge') who will render a decision on the case. So, if you really think about it, Delta has already agreed to a merger with NO PROTECTION of your seniority. You choice now is to secure DOH or throw the dice (into the forum of arbitration) and pray the arbitrator does do what happened in the last case like this (USAirway pilots) and slot "us" (NWA FAs) ahead of you on a combined seniority list. Delta executives are already 'powerless' in this scenario...so their promise meant (and continues to mean) nothing.
____________________________________

Thought you'd like to see the entirely different vantage points I am dealing with from NWA and DAL. Weird, ain't it?

Why do you assume that an arbitrator would give DL f/a's less than date of hire. Do you think he will have a vendetta (sp) against DL? We are the aquiring carreir and yes that was done for a purpose. DL management probably wants to favor thier employees who are non- union. Your pilots refused to be fair and equitable in their negotiations and now you guys are trying the same thing. I can only speak for myself but I am not asking for an advantage over you guys but we have to look at what each brings to the table and share proportionately, DOH does not do that.

 

[Danny Campbell]

cooper43:

The reason I think we stand to do better than DOH in an arbitration is two reasons...

1. We have a contract -- with firm Labor Protective Provisions

2. Overall, we are the more 'junior' FA group (as were the America West pilots in their arbitration decision)

For the life of me, I can't imagine HOW the Delta FAs will do better than DOH in arbitration. For example, did you know that your company (thru their lobbyists on Capitol Hill) actually fought AGAINST the recent legislation that requires aribtration for seniority issues? In fact, they said this issue "...is a matter for collective bargaining agreements". Surely those statements are going to be used AGAINST them (and you) in arbitration.

 

[cooper43]

cooper43:

The reason I think we stand to do better than DOH in an arbitration is two reasons...

1. We have a contract -- with firm Labor Protective Provisions

2. Overall, we are the more 'junior' FA group (as were the America West pilots in their arbitration decision)

For the life of me, I can't imagine HOW the Delta FAs will do better than DOH in arbitration. For example, did you know that your company (thru their lobbyists on Capitol Hill) actually fought AGAINST the recent legislation that requires aribtration for seniority issues? In fact, they said this issue "...is a matter for collective bargaining agreements". Surely those statements are going to be used AGAINST them (and you) in arbitration.

Hi Danny,
I hope you dont mind continuing this dialogue.

Now you are saying in arbitration that the arbitrator will by law favor NWA because you have a contract and the fact that DAL doesnt the arbitrator has no obligation to consider DL f/a's?

Also how do you come to know that DL f/a's are more senior than NW f/a's? We are offering an early retirement as we speak which could change everything, and I'm just not sure that even without early retirements DAL f/a's are more senior. How would one find this out?