Do You Want To Re- Elect Bush For Presendent!

[sentrido]

IGNORING THEM?

From the Article:
The threat of weapons of mass destruction possessed by Saddam Hussein's now toppled regime was the main justification used by Washington to go to war against Iraq last year, but U.S.-led forces have only found small amounts of banned weapons.


Poland said its soldiers found 17 Grad rockets and two mortar shells in late June and said U.S. experts had carried out tests on the weapons.


"Tests conducted showed that there was cyclosarin in the rocket heads," General Marek Dukaczewski, the head of army intelligence, told a news conference.


But the U.S. military said only two of the rockets had tested positive for sarin gas, and another 16 of the rockets found by the Poles had contained no chemical agents. The reason for the discrepancy in numbers was unclear.

_____________

In Baghdad, the U.S. military issued a statement saying that two 122 mm rockets found by Polish forces had tested positive for sarin gas and confirmed that they were left over from the Iran-Iraq war, but said they posed little danger.


The statement said an Iraqi civilian had led the soldiers to the rockets in the town of Hilla, 62 miles south of Baghdad on June 16.


"Due to the deteriorated state of the rounds and small quantity of remaining agent, these rounds were determined to have limited to no impact if used by insurgents against Coalition Forces," the statement said.


The Iraqi showed the Polish troops 16 more 122 mm rockets from June 23 to 26, which were all empty and tested negative for any type of chemicals, the U.S. statement said.
_______________


Wow, a story about things that were actually found. Must be Liberal.

 

[delldude]

IGNORING THEM?

From the Article:
The threat of weapons of mass destruction possessed by Saddam Hussein's now toppled regime was the main justification used by Washington to go to war against Iraq last year, but U.S.-led forces have only found small amounts of banned weapons.


Poland said its soldiers found 17 Grad rockets and two mortar shells in late June and said U.S. experts had carried out tests on the weapons.


"Tests conducted showed that there was cyclosarin in the rocket heads," General Marek Dukaczewski, the head of army intelligence, told a news conference.


But the U.S. military said only two of the rockets had tested positive for sarin gas, and another 16 of the rockets found by the Poles had contained no chemical agents. The reason for the discrepancy in numbers was unclear.

_____________

In Baghdad, the U.S. military issued a statement saying that two 122 mm rockets found by Polish forces had tested positive for sarin gas and confirmed that they were left over from the Iran-Iraq war, but said they posed little danger.


The statement said an Iraqi civilian had led the soldiers to the rockets in the town of Hilla, 62 miles south of Baghdad on June 16.


"Due to the deteriorated state of the rounds and small quantity of remaining agent, these rounds were determined to have limited to no impact if used by insurgents against Coalition Forces," the statement said.


The Iraqi showed the Polish troops 16 more 122 mm rockets from June 23 to 26, which were all empty and tested negative for any type of chemicals, the U.S. statement said.
_______________


Wow, a story about things that were actually found. Must be Liberal.

its quite clear to me kerry operatives emptied the remaining 16 shells and disposed of the sarin to discredit bush.
of course they were old shells also...guess someone would mind if they were shot with an old wwI rifle bullet?
or a 25 year old w87 thats been lying around??

 

[delldude]

forget the nukes...its been disproved....
this is more important::
US warns of booby-trapped beer coolers
June 28
Breakingnews.ie - Security officials warned today of a possible new weapon in the terrorist arsenal - booby-trapped beer coolers.



By stonehouse in USA: Homeland Security on Sun Jun 27th, 2004 at 11:43:26 PM PDT

Law-enforcement officials in the US have been warned to be on the look out for the enticing bombs.
It is feared that an eager beer-lover could find one of the home-made bombs and open it, to an almost certain death.

The warning was sent to 18,000 law-enforcement groups by the FBI last week, Time magazine reported.

People were also warned to be on the look out for booby-trapped plastic-foam containers, inner tubes and other floating objects.

Such objects could be wired to explode if they hit a boat on major waterways, officials told the magazine.

In October 2000 al-Qaida attacked the USS Cole with a suicide boat bomb in a Yemeni port, killing 17 sailors.

Fears of a new terrorist attack were raised in recent weeks after Attorney General John Ashcroft said that al-Qaida was determined to hit the US "hard".

He cited intelligence, suggesting that major events, such as the July 4 Independence Day celebrations would make an attractive terrorist target.

Despite the latest warning, sources at the FBI and Department of Homeland Security said no floating bombs or booby-trapped beer coolers had actually been found.


< THIS HITS AT THE VERY HEART OF AMERICA

 

[delldude]

Fw: John Kerry's shipmates speak out



-----
"We resent very deeply the false war crimes charges he made coming back from Vietnam in 1971 and repeated in the book "Tour of Duty." We think those cast an aspersion on all those living and dead, from our unit and other units in Vietnam. We think that he knew he was lying when he made the charges, and we think that they're unsupportable. We intend to bring the truth about that to the American people.

We believe, based on our experience with him, that he is totally unfit to be the Commander-in-Chief."

-- John O'Neill, spokesman, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth

.



"I do not believe John Kerry is fit to be Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces of the United States. This is not a political issue. It is a matter of his judgment, truthfulness, reliability, loyalty and trust -- all absolute tenets of command. His biography, 'Tour of Duty,' by Douglas Brinkley, is replete with gross exaggerations, distortions of fact, contradictions and slanderous lies. His contempt for the military and authority is evident by even a most casual review of this biography. He arrived in-country with a strong anti-Vietnam War bias and a self-serving determination to build a foundation for his political future. He was aggressive, but vain and prone to impulsive judgment, often with disregard for specific tactical assignments. He was a 'loose cannon.' In an abbreviated tour of four months and 12 days, and with his specious medals secure, Lt.(jg) Kerry bugged out and began his infamous betrayal of all United States forces in the Vietnam War. That included our soldiers, our marines, our sailors, our coast guardsmen, our airmen, and our POWs. His leadership within the so-called Vietnam Veterans Against the War and testimony before Congress in 1971 charging us with unspeakable atrocities remain an undocumented but nevertheless meticulous stain on the men and women who honorably stayed the course. Senator Kerry is not fit for command."

-- Rear Admiral Roy Hoffman, USN (retired), chairman, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth

.



"During Lt.(jg) Kerry's tour, he was under my command for two or three specific operations, before his rapid exit. Trust, loyalty and judgment are the key, operative words. His turncoat performance in 1971 in his grubby shirt and his medal-tossing escapade, coupled with his slanderous lines in the recent book portraying us that served, including all POWs and MIAs, as murderous war criminals, I believe, will have a lasting effect on all military veterans and their families.

Kerry would be described as devious, self-absorbing, manipulative, disdain for authority, disruptive, but the most common phrase that you'd hear is 'requires constant supervision.'"

-- Captain Charles Plumly, USN (retired)

.



"Thirty-five years ago, many of us fell silent when we came back to the stain of sewage that Mr. Kerry had thrown on us, and all of our colleagues who served over there. I don't intend to be silent today or ever again. Our young men and women who are serving deserve no less."

-- Andrew Horne

.



"In my specific, personal experience in both coastal and river patrols over a 12-month period, I never once saw or heard anything remotely resembling the atrocities described by Senator Kerry. If I had, it would have been my obligation to report them in writing to a higher authority, and I would certainly have done that. If Senator Kerry actually witnessed or participated in these atrocities or, as he described them, 'war crimes,' he was obligated to report them. That he did not until later when it suited his political purposes strikes me as opportunism of the worst kind. That he would malign my service and that of his fellow sailors with no regard for the truth makes him totally unqualified to serve as Commander-in-Chief"

-- Jeffrey Wainscott

.



"I signed that letter because I, too felt a deep sense of betrayal that someone who took the same oath of loyalty as I did as an officer in the United States Navy would abandon his group here (points to group photo) to join this group here (points to VVAW protest photo), and come home and attempt to rally the American public against the effort that this group was so valiantly pursuing.

It is a fact that in the entire Vietnam War we did not lose one major battle. We lost the war at home ... and at home, John Kerry was the Field General."

-- Robert Elder

.



"My daughters and my wife have read portions of the book 'Tour of Duty.' They wanted to know if I took part in the atrocities described. I do not believe the things that are described happened.

Let me give you an example In Brinkley's book, on pages 170 to 171, about something called the 'Bo De massacre' on November 24th of 1968... In Kerry's description of the engagement, first he claimed there were 17 servicemen that were wounded. Three of us were wounded. I was the first..."

-- Joseph Ponder

.



"While in Cam Rahn Bay, he trained on several 24-hour indoctrination missions, and one special skimmer operation with my most senior and trusted Lieutenant. The briefing from some members of that crew the morning after revealed that they had not received any enemy fire, and yet Lt.(jg) Kerry informed me of a wound -- he showed me a scratch on his arm and a piece of shrapnel in his hand that appeared to be from one of our own M-79s. It was later reported to me that Lt.(jg) Kerry had fired an M-79, and it had exploded off the adjacent shoreline. I do not recall being advised of any medical treatment, and probably said something like 'Forget it.' He later received a Purple Heart for that scratch, and I have no information as to how or whom.

Lt.(jg) Kerry was allowed to return to the good old USA after 4 months and a few days in-country, and then he proceeded to betray his former shipmates, calling them criminals who were committing atrocities. Today we are here to tell you that just the opposite is true. Our rules of engagement were quite strict, and the officers and men of Swift often did not even return fire when they were under fire if there was a possibility that innocent people -- fishermen, in a lot of cases -- might be hurt or injured. The rules and the good intentions of the men increased the possibility that we might take friendly casualties."

-- Commander Grant Hibbard, USN (retired)

.



"Lt. Kerry returned home from the war to make some outrageous statements and allegations... of numerous criminal acts in violation of the law of war were cited by Kerry, disparaging those who had fought with honor in that conflict. Had war crimes been committed by US forces in Vietnam? Yes, but such acts were few and far between. Yet Lt. Kerry have numerous speeches and testimony before Congress inappropriately leading his audiences to believe that what was only an anomaly in the conduct of America's fighting men was an epidemic. Furthermore, he suggested that they were being encouraged to violated the law of war by those within the chain of command.

Very specific orders, on file at the Vietnam archives at Texas Tech University, were issued by my father [Admiral Elmo Zumwalt] and others in his chain of command instructing subordinates to act responsibly in preserving the life and property of Vietnamese civilians."

-- Lt. Col. James Zumwalt, USMC (retired)

.



"We look at Vietnam... after all these years it is still languishing in isolated poverty and helplessness and tyranny. This is John Kerry's legacy. I deeply resent John Kerry's using his Swift boat experience, and his betrayal of those who fought there as a stepping-stone to his political ambitions."

-- Barnard Wolff

.



"In a whole year that I spent patrolling, I didn't see anything like a war crime, an atrocity, anything like that. Time and again I saw American fighting men put themselves in graver danger trying to avoid... collateral damage.

When John Kerry returned to the country, he was sworn in front of Congress. And then he told my family -- my parents, my sister, my brother, my neighbors -- he told everyone I knew and everyone I'd ever know that I and my comrades had committed unspeakable atrocities."

-- David Wallace

.



"I served with these guys. I went on missions with them, and these men served honorably. Up and down the chain of command there was no acquiescence to atrocities. It was not condoned, it did not happen, and it was not reported to me verbally or in writing by any of these men including Lt.(jg) Kerry.

In 1971, '72, for almost 18 months, he stood before the television audiences and claimed that the 500,000 men and women in Vietnam, and in combat, were all villains -- there were no heroes. In 2004, one hero from the Vietnam War has appeared, running for President of the United States and Commander-in-Chief. It just galls one to think about it."

-- Captain George Elliott, USN (retired)

.



"During the Vietnam War I was Task Force Commander at An Thoi, and my tour of duty was 13 months, from the end of Tet to the beginning of the Vietnamization of the Navy units.

Now when I went there right after Tet, I was restricted in my movements. I couldn't go much of anyplace because the Vietcong controlled most of the area. When I left, I could go anywhere I wanted, just about. Commerce was booming, the buses were running, trucks were going, the waterways were filled with sampans with goods going to market, but yet in Kerry's biography he says that our operations were a complete failure. He also mentions a formal conference with me, to try to get more air cover and so on. That conference never happened..."

-- Captain Adrian Lonsdale, USCG (retired)

.



"I was in An Thoi from June of '68 to June of '69, covering the whole period that John Kerry was there. I operated in every river, in every canal, and every off-shore patrol area in the 4th Corps area, from Cambodia all the way around to the Bo De River. I never saw, even heard of all of these so-called atrocities and things that we were supposed to have done.

This is not true. We're not standing for it. We want to set the record straight."

-- William Shumadine

.



"In 1971, when John Kerry spoke out to America, labeling all Vietnam veterans as thugs and murderers, I was shocked and almost brought to my knees, because even though I had served at the same time and same unit, I had never witnessed or participated in any of the events that the Senator had accused us of. I strongly believe that the statements made by the Senator were not only false and inaccurate, but extremely harmful to the United States' efforts in Southeast Asia and the rest of the world. Tragically, some veterans, scorned by the antiwar movement and their allies, retreated to a life of despair and suicide. Two of my crewmates were among them. For that there is no forgiveness. "

-- Richard O'Meara

.



"My name is Steve Gardner. I served in 1966 and 1967 on my first tour of duty in Vietnam on Swift boats, and I did my second tour in '68 and '69, involved with John Kerry in the last 2 1/2 months of my tour. The John Kerry that I know is not the John Kerry that everybody else is portraying. I served alongside him and behind him, five feet away from him in a gun tub, and watched as he made indecisive moves with our boat, put our boats in jeopardy, put our crews in jeopardy... if a man like that can't handle that 6-man crew boat, how can you expect him to be our Commander-in-Chief?"

-- Steven Gardner

.



"I served in Vietnam as a boat officer from June of 1968 to July of 1969. My service was three months in Coastal Division 13 out of Cat Lo, and nine months with Coastal Division 11 based in An Thoi. John Kerry was in An Thoi the same time I was. I'm here today to express the anger I have harbored for over 33 years, about being accused with my fellow shipmates of war atrocities.

All I can say is when I leave here today, I'm going down to the Wall to tell my two crew members it's not true, and that they and the other 49 Swiftees who are on the Wall were then and are still now the best."

-- Robert Brant

.



"I never saw, heard of, or participated in any Swift boat crews killing cattle, poisoning crops, or raping and killing civilians as charged by John Kerry, both in his book and in public statements. Since we both operated at the same time, in the same general area, and on the same missions under the same commanders, it is hard to believe his claims of atrocities and poor planning of Sea Lord missions.

I signed this letter because I feel that he used Swift boat sailors to proclaim his antiwar statements after the war, and now he uses the same Swift boat sailors to support his claims of being a war hero. He cannot have it both ways, and we are here to ask for full disclosure of the proof of his claims."

-- James Steffes

.

.

 

[local 12 proud]

he's perfect! he would make the french very proud as thier leader, perhaps spain, or the phillipines

 

[TWAnr]

Fw: John Kerry's shipmates speak out

Those were not his shipmates. This is just more lunatic fringe right wing lies by Smear Boat Veterans for Bush.

On May 17, 2004, Matt Gunn shares a segment from Joe Conason's recent registration-required Salon "uncovering" of "yet more 'Swift Boat Veterans for Truth' Republican ties, as if there weren't enough on record already" [Gunn comments]:

"When the 'Swift Boat Veterans for Truth' launched its campaign against John Kerry 10 days ago, leadership and guidance were provided by Republican activists and presidential friends from Texas -- notably Houston attorney John E. O'Neill and corporate media consultant Merrie Spaeth. Indeed, although the group made its debut at a press conference in Washington, it looked and sounded like a Texas GOP operation.

"On closer inspection, the ostensibly nonpartisan 'Swift Boat Vets' seem to have another pair of significant sponsors with deep and long-standing Republican connections in Missouri. Both are officers of Gannon International, a St. Louis conglomerate that does lots of overseas business in, of all places, the Socialist Republic of Vietnam.

"Ties to Gannon can be traced via the Swift Boat Vets Web site ... On April 14, the site was registered under the name of Lewis Waterman, Gannon's information technology manager, at 11301 Olive Boulevard in St. Louis, the firm's headquarters address. Although Waterman wouldn't discuss why he had set up the Web site, he didn't deny that his boss, Gannon president and CEO William Franke, had asked him to do so.

"'The information about my client is confidential,' said Waterman. He acknowledged knowing, however, that his boss Franke is a Navy veteran who served in Vietnam on swift boats. Gannon vice president Stephen D. Hayes, who oversees the company's office in Alexandria, Va., is likewise a swift boat veteran who first met Franke when they served together in the Mekong Delta."

"What is most intriguing about Franke, Hayes, and Gannon -- especially in light of their apparent role in the campaign against John Kerry -- are their strong commercial interests in Southeast Asia. While Gannon is a highly diversified holding company whose divisions range from real estate in Florida and Missouri to Internet technology and software, it maintains an unusual presence in Vietnam, with offices in both Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City. Indeed, Gannon has operated in that country's tourism, real estate and import-export sectors for a decade. (The target market for its tours was fellow Vietnam veterans.)

"None of Gannon's profitable activities in the communist republic would be possible, of course, without the approval of the Hanoi government, which Franke has described as 'strong' and 'stable.' Nor would Gannon be conducting business in Vietnam without the Clinton administration diplomacy, assisted by Sen. Kerry, that established diplomatic and trade ties with the United States in 1994. Franke first began traveling to Vietnam on behalf of Operation Smile, an American charity that provides plastic surgery to children abroad. The relationships he established during those humanitarian missions provided a considerable advantage in doing business under government auspices.

"It was also during those early visits to Vietnam, as he told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, that Franke reached a clearer understanding of the war he had once fought as a young Navy lieutenant.

"'As I looked back 20 years, I saw that it was a very imperial relationship we had with these people,' said Franke in 1989. 'We were young. We were there because we were told to be there and that they were the enemy. This time I saw them as human beings who had fears and hopes the same as we.'

"Yet he evidently cannot forgive John Kerry for reaching the same conclusion about that war and its victims, so many years before he finally did."

Joe Klein, "The Long War of John Kerry," The New Yorker, January 5, 2004 (Courtesy of Matt Gunn and Mike Stark):

"Nixon's chief counsel, Charles Colson, didn't just tap John E. O'Neill to attack Kerry, he also formed an entire group around him called Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace: [1]

"[Kerry] was an immediate celebrity. He was also an immediate target of the Nixon administration. Years later, Chuck Colson--who was Nixon's political enforcer--told me, 'He was a thorn in our flesh. He was very articulate, a credible leader of the opposition. He forced us to create a counterfoil. We found a vet named John O'Neill and formed a group called Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace. We had O'Neill meet the President, and we did everything we could do to boost his group."

"'Swift Boat Veterans for Truth' can be seen as merely a 21st century reinvention of Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace."

Joe Conason writes on May 4, 2004, in Salon that the "latest conservative outfit to fire an angry broadside against John Kerry's heroic war record is 'Swift Boat Veterans for Truth', which today launches a campaign to brand the Democrat 'unfit to serve as commander in chief.' Billing itself as representing the 'other 97 percent of veterans' from Kerry's Navy unit who don't support his presidential candidacy, the group insists that all presidential candidates must be 'totally honest and forthcoming' about their military service.

"These 'swift boat vets' claim still to be furious about Kerry's 1971 Senate testimony against the war in which he spoke about atrocities in Indochina's 'free fire zones.' More than three decades later," Conason writes, "facing the complicated truth about Vietnam remains difficult. But this group's political connections make clear that its agenda is to target" U.S. presidential election, 2004."

"Conason identifies "veteran corporate media consultant and Texas Republican activist Merrie Spaeth" as being behind the group. Spaeth, "listed as the group's media contact," is the widow of Tex Lezar, "eternal Kerry antagonist and Dallas attorney" John E. O'Neill's law partner.

The group's founder is "retired Rear Adm. Roy Hoffman, a cigar-chomping former Vietnam commander once described as 'the classic body-count guy' who 'wanted hooches destroyed and people killed.'" Hoffmann "first gained notoriety in Vietnam as a strutting, cigar-chewing Navy captain. But it was O'Neill, by now a familiar figure on the Kerry-bashing circuit, who came to Spaeth for assistance," according to Conason.

"Until now," he adds, "Hoffmann has been best known as the commanding officer whose obsession with body counts and 'scorekeeping' may have provoked the February 1969 massacre of Vietnamese civilians at Thanh Phong by a unit led by Bob Kerrey -- the Medal of Honor winner who lost a leg in Nam, became a U.S. senator from Nebraska and now sits on the 9-11 Commission."

Conason says that Spaeth is not "as well known as" Karen P. Hughes but yet is "among the most experienced and best connected Republican communications executives. During the Reagan administration she served as director of the White House Office of Media Liaison, where she specialized in promoting "news" items that boosted President Reagan to TV stations around the country. While living in Washington she met and married Lezar, a Reagan Justice Department lawyer who ran for lieutenant governor of Texas in 1994 with George W. Bush, then the party's candidate for governor. (Lezar lost; Bush won.)"

Conason concludes that "Arguments about the war in Vietnam seem destined to continue forever. For now, however, the lingering bitterness and ambiguity of those days provide smear material against an antiwar war hero with five medals on behalf of a privileged Guardsman with a dubious duty record. The president's Texas allies -- whose animus against his Democratic challenger dates back to the Nixon era -- are now deploying the same techniques and personnel they used to attack McCain's integrity four years ago. Bush's 'independent' supporters would apparently rather talk about the Vietnam quagmire than about his deadly incompetence in Iraq."

Hoffmania blogspot provides the following excerpt from the May 4, 2004, NewsMax article "Swift Boat Veterans Condemn Kerry As Unfit To Command". His comment follows the quote.

"O'Neill told NewsMax.com that the medals and their back stories were not the real issue being targeted by the organization, referring to the second paragraph of the letter to Kerry:

"It is our collective judgment that, upon your return from Vietnam, you grossly and knowingly distorted the conduct of the American soldiers, Marines, sailors and airmen of that war (including a betrayal of many of us, without regard for the danger your actions caused us.) Further, we believe that you have withheld and/or distorted material facts as to your own conduct in this war."

"But it is with regard to the latter sentence of the charge that John E. O'Neill and others get vague.

"When asked by NewsMax if they had in mind any potential smoking gun of distortion that might be revealed by an unfettered examination of Kerry's military records, there was no answer forthcoming."

Bob Somerby, "Kerry’s accuser remembered it wrong. But so what?," The Daily Howler, May 5, 2004.

Matt Gunn, "Swift Boat Veterans for a Big Lie" and "Swift Boat Followup," mattgunn.com, May 5 and May 6, 2004.

Disinfopedia

 

[FredF]

Typical Liberal Propeganda. When you cannot dispute the facts, taint the person or people telling the facts and their motives. Don't have a discourse about what they are saying, make it instead who is doint the talking and why.

 

[delldude]

Those were not his shipmates. This is just more lunatic fringe right wing lies by Smear Boat Veterans for Bush.

so who's behind salon??hehehe
gimme a left..left...left
NOW WHAT DO YOU SAY?? 😉

So far as we are able to determine, Kerry was the only Swift sailor ever to leave Vietnam without completing the standard one-year tour of duty, other than those who were seriously wounded or killed.

It is clear that at least one of Kerry's Purple Heart awards was the result of his own negligence, not enemy fire, and that Kerry went to unusual lengths to obtain the award after being turned down by his own commanding officer.

John Kerry has long insisted that using the three-injury loophole to leave combat early was his own idea, but Kerry's fellow Swift officer Thomas Wright, who served on occasion as the OIC (Officer in Charge) of Kerry's boat group, contradicts that claim. Wright reports that he "had a lot of trouble getting Kerry to follow orders," and that those who worked with Kerry found him "oriented towards his personal, rather than unit goals and objectives." He therefore requested that Kerry be removed from his boat group. After John Kerry qualified for his third Purple Heart, Thomas Wright and two fellow officers informed him of the obscure regulation, and told him to go home. Wright concluded, "We knew how the system worked and we didn’t want him in Coastal Division 11."

Constructing a complete picture of Kerry's service is difficult due to gaps in the Naval records provided by the Kerry campaign. These gaps include missing and incomplete fitness reports, missing medical records and missing records related to his medal awards.

 

[sentrido]

Wow. Who ever thought that VOLUNTEERING for combat could be portrayed as a political liability?

Things like Mr. O'neal having personal meetings with NIXON are relavant. The FACT that NIXON thought a smeer campaign against a 27 year old COMBAT VET who happened to think the nations leaders were letting his fellow soldiers down was a good idea. If some vets want to critisize Kerry thats thier right, but it is also appropriate to point out thier motives and the context in which they make thier claims.The FACTS are that Kerry did not accuse the entire US Military of commiting war crimes. He did accuse the leadership of the country for letting the US Soldier in Vietnam down.And I think history has shown his point to be a valid one.

They dont seem to want to critisize Bush for not going to a war he supported, or getting his dads buddy to put in the gaurd to avoid it.The way he let his new best buddy McCain get ripped in Carolina. All these Vets have perfect memories of that time, but Bush cant remember a damn thing he ever did in Alabama.

My decision not to vote for GWB is not based on his absence from Vietnam(Though his lack of memory about his gaurd time disturbes me little).

On a side note, did anybody see Carter's speech at the convention, or see his interview on PBS afterwards? He must be hella pissed of to get back into the politcal fray again.He even saide (I'm paraphrasing of course)that he doesnt know that he can blame Bush for the mistakes he thinks this administration has made, because he isnt entirly shure Bush is actually the one in charge. Ha!

 

[FredF]

If ever there was a horribly incompitant president and a failed presidency it was good ole Smilling Jimmy.

If sKerry is taking advice from him then ... well, we should question his policies anyway. Raising taxes, sure that is the way out of everything.

Kill the economic recovery. Establish sociliazed healthcare. That will solve everyones problems.

Beg the UN to allow us to protect our own country. Sure, that is the way to safeguard out country.

 

[sentrido]

Fred, do you make over 200K a year? If you dont then your taxes wont be raised, and probably lowered. The tax increases proposed by the Dems will not hurt the economy at all. Business anlready have all the money they need, they arent spending it cause there is no demand from the middle class to spur growth. Putting more money in the hands of the middle class, who will actually spend it and put it back into the economy will get the engine going for everybody, not just the wealthiest americans.

You use the term socialized healthcare cause it has bad connotations, I prefer univerasal heathcare. It sounds much more optomistic. We live in a very rich nation, I dont think garunteing affordable , and sometimes even free, heath care for every citizen is to lofty a goal. Other countries do it and it works just fine.

As for the "Beg the UN" rant, I think that stuff is getting old.You rehtoric is not backed up by facts or events. The Dems arent going to be any weaker than the GOP and in most cases a little more thoughtfull.To rob a line, " strengh and wisdom are not mutually exclusive"

 

[FredF]

First off, you live under a rock is you think that only those making over $200k/year are going to see a tax increase. I would also ask you who do you think creates more jobs in america, those so called middle class people that you think are the ones that sKerry is going to give tax releif to or to the people like Bill Gates and Ross Perot or Larry Ellison. Those are the people that create jobs. The creation of Jobs allows for money to flow in circles. That is how the economy grows. Oh and by the way, the government does not create jobs, private industry does.

Second, I used the term socailized health care because that is exactly what it is. Go back to high school and look up the definition of socialism and you will se that that is exactly what Hillary first proposed and what the dems are slowly trying to move this country to. sKerry has even come right out and said it. Show me where in the constitution Healthcare Insurance is a right. Go ahead. I want to see it. hint🙁you won't find it) If you think socialized healthcare works, just go ask those canadian fleeing, yes fleeing across the boarder to where was that again, oh yeah, the US to obtain medical services they cannot get in their own country because of the buracracy.


Beg the UN is not a RANT. Ok so maybe it is, but only because that is what sKerry has said. He want to ask permission before he will commit our military in our own defense.

 

[local 12 proud]

socialism does not work, it lasted less than a century and tore that country apart. the russian government is broke and corruption abounds thru every buisness sector on the continent. it was a country of have's=elite and the have nots=commoner no middle class was existant during that communistic tyranny. when you depend on the government to supply and govern every social need it will eventually implode and have a disaterous effect on all except the filty rich. for those on here wanting government hand outs (socialism) then pack your happy held out hand up and move north to canada and see what a great system they have in place.

 

[sentrido]

First off, you live under a rock is you think that only those making over $200k/year are going to see a tax increase. I would also ask you who do you think creates more jobs in america, those so called middle class people that you think are the ones that sKerry is going to give tax releif to or to the people like Bill Gates and Ross Perot or Larry Ellison. Those are the people that create jobs. The creation of Jobs allows for money to flow in circles. That is how the economy grows. Oh and by the way, the government does not create jobs, private industry does.

I'm only going by what Kerry has said he will do, and he has said he will not raise taxes on those making less than 200K. Show me otherwise. As for job creation, Those people yuo have mentioned have gotten thier tax cuts already. They have the money to "create" those jobs sitting in the bank. There isnt any demand for investment in new jobs.The money isnt flowing. Its just more benefitial to the economy to give the middle class the money.They spend it.More bang for the buck as far as giving the economy a boost. Bill, Ross, Larry, and even Kerry dont need more money in the bank, they need customers.If you have a different opinion about it, thats fine, but the money in the economy isnt getting to the middle class.Companies are making record profits, but arent growing, arent creating jobs, and arent giving raises.

Second, I used the term socailized health care because that is exactly what it is. Go back to high school and look up the definition of socialism and you will se that that is exactly what Hillary first proposed and what the dems are slowly trying to move this country to. sKerry has even come right out and said it. Show me where in the constitution Healthcare Insurance is a right. Go ahead. I want to see it. hint🙁you won't find it) If you think socialized healthcare works, just go ask those canadian fleeing, yes fleeing across the boarder to where was that again, oh yeah, the US to obtain medical services they cannot get in their own country because of the buracracy.

If you dont like the idea of universal heathcare thats ok. But the Facts are that it works. I would counter you example by the Fact that Americas are fleeing across the border to where was that again, oh yeah, CANADA to get affordable perscription medacine. As for constitutional issues, if your so big on the document how can you support Bush, he wants to Ignore or change most of it.

Beg the UN is not a RANT. Ok so maybe it is, but only because that is what sKerry has said. He want to ask permission before he will commit our military in our own defense.

Kerry has never said this. Or implied it. The only poeple who have said this are the GOP cheerleaders who want you to be afraid. If you have the opinion that Bush is "Better for Defence", whatever that means, tell us why?

 

[AA-MCI]

Why is it that so-called 'Socialized Medicine' is good enough for Dubya and the folks of the Executive Branch, the entire Legislative and Judicial Branches and the US Military but as soon as someone proposes such a thing for the rest of us it becomes 'Socialism'?

The Canadians have had single-payer health care for decades and I don't see busloads of seniors crossing over to the US for affordable drugs or critically ill Canadians becoming US citizens so they can get treatment without bankrupting their families. Despite the US AMA efforts to scare us into believing otherwise, single-payer health care works. Stop parroting the AMA line before your family
becomes one of the 44 Million US families who can no longer afford health care.