No widebodies, no caribbean, no red-eyes, no alliances. It would be great if the airline had the flexibilty to adapt more quickly - but the unions would never allow that.
Doug Parkers statement on philly.com
- Thread starter towerclt
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No widebodies, no caribbean, no red-eyes, no alliances. It would be great if the airline had the flexibilty to adapt more quickly - but the unions would never allow that.
High Iron
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- Aug 20, 2002
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BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
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There you are stuck in that little box again....
Why no widebodies - the TA routes are nothing more than point to point service? The same is true of the Caribbean and LA. You do realize that WN connects a significant percentage of it's traffic at the focus cities, don't you.
Alliance - why not?
You make the same mistakes as management - believing that to be efficient we have to be exactly like WN. A failure to think outside the box that, unfortunately for US, isn't shared by all legacy airline managements.
Jim
1. Given what has happened to pensions, payscales and working conditions (the stuff unions bust their gut over), exactly how is that a demonstation of union power?
2. BK I & BK II.
3. Kindly cite a contract area that seriously impedes management discretion, fleet-wise. ALPA may have a little language (nobody else does), that Parker/Glass/Crellin would go thru like pookie thru a goose. They ain't sweatin' NUTHIN'!
4. I think most folks on the property would happily exchange carribbean, widebodies, etc. for WN terms of employment.
5. It's the business plan!
Jim,
Concur.
Imagine:
1. Connecting the DAY's, FWA's, GSO's and FAY's of the country to the NYC's, SFO's, LGW's, CDG's and FCO's of the world,
2. Thru efficient hubs, bypassing the ATL's, ORD's and PHL's.
3. Employing one fleet family for large and international markets (737's, 757's, 767's) and another for thin markets, new markets and middle markets.
4. One airline.
That would be one up and coming airline!
Concur.
Imagine:
1. Connecting the DAY's, FWA's, GSO's and FAY's of the country to the NYC's, SFO's, LGW's, CDG's and FCO's of the world,
2. Thru efficient hubs, bypassing the ATL's, ORD's and PHL's.
3. Employing one fleet family for large and international markets (737's, 757's, 767's) and another for thin markets, new markets and middle markets.
4. One airline.
That would be one up and coming airline!
libertybell
Senior
- Jan 5, 2003
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This was in yesterdays Philadelphia Inquirer its an editorial
This quote stuck out and backs up what fleet service has been saying for a long long time.
"Morale and staffing problems are as implicated in the baggage mess as any equipment shortfalls. Better training and management might help with those problems. But basic labor market economics may dictate that the airline must pay more to get the qualified, motivated workers it needs to turn around the problem."
This quote stuck out and backs up what fleet service has been saying for a long long time.
"Morale and staffing problems are as implicated in the baggage mess as any equipment shortfalls. Better training and management might help with those problems. But basic labor market economics may dictate that the airline must pay more to get the qualified, motivated workers it needs to turn around the problem."
Libertybell,
I agree to a point, but the highest paid, most senior employees in the past were the ones hiding when there was work to be done, and doing whatever they could to avoid work. I am not saying this about everyone because I know there are serious hard working folks in PHL, but the few rotten ones spoil it for everyone else.
There is a general sense of entitlement among SOME workers in PHL which directly interferes with getting the job done. As much as I know many of the hardworking folks in PHL, I have seen first hand what the bad ones can cause. Paying more will help in a few cases but not all.
Creating a work environment where you are rewarded for doing a good job and meeting goals on a steady basis (not once, as indicated in another thread), and creating incentives for steady improvement would, in my opinion, work better than jumping on people and creating a hostile work environment.
FFOCUS' main theme is you can't have happy customers without happy employees--somewhere out there is the right combination of pay and incentives which could make any place run right--even PHL!
I agree to a point, but the highest paid, most senior employees in the past were the ones hiding when there was work to be done, and doing whatever they could to avoid work. I am not saying this about everyone because I know there are serious hard working folks in PHL, but the few rotten ones spoil it for everyone else.
There is a general sense of entitlement among SOME workers in PHL which directly interferes with getting the job done. As much as I know many of the hardworking folks in PHL, I have seen first hand what the bad ones can cause. Paying more will help in a few cases but not all.
Creating a work environment where you are rewarded for doing a good job and meeting goals on a steady basis (not once, as indicated in another thread), and creating incentives for steady improvement would, in my opinion, work better than jumping on people and creating a hostile work environment.
FFOCUS' main theme is you can't have happy customers without happy employees--somewhere out there is the right combination of pay and incentives which could make any place run right--even PHL!
Travelpro72
Veteran
- Jan 30, 2005
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Turning a 737 in an outstation like WN does is sometimes possible but doing it in PHL is next to impossible. You have some turns at 35 minutes. HOW do you park, deplane, clean, cater then have the 30 minutes to board? IMPOSSIBLE. Even on a good day. Sometimes when loads are not full, the plane isn't that dirty and catering isn't really needed can it happen. 
WN we are not so stop trying to be something that we are NEVER going to be. We can use some of their idea but the overall operation is more complex. I mean turning a 737 isn't even that simple when you break it down into all the little things that go on in between a flight. Then when you hurry and rush to get it out to keep the flight on schedule you have to wait for bags to be loaded because the poor folks down below are understaffed. It's just a snowball.
WN we are not so stop trying to be something that we are NEVER going to be. We can use some of their idea but the overall operation is more complex. I mean turning a 737 isn't even that simple when you break it down into all the little things that go on in between a flight. Then when you hurry and rush to get it out to keep the flight on schedule you have to wait for bags to be loaded because the poor folks down below are understaffed. It's just a snowball.Turning a flight in a hub will always be slower than in an out-station - hub resources have to be allocated across competing needs; in an out-station, everybody can jump on the situation. Plus waiting for connections, congestion, etc. That is why WN gets more flight cycles - flights are tied up on the ground.
With regards to the latest newspaper article, the first one was a good article, excepting this quote:
"Working "on the ramp," hefting bags for US Airways, was once a solid, middle-class job, one that someone with a high school education could count on to buy a house, put kids through college, and allow a comfortable retirement. Workers with decades on the job were commonplace.
Now that's a remote dream for newly hired US Airways ramp workers - a casualty of the industry's deregulation, which brought consumers lower fares, but ended fat labor contracts whose costs airlines once could pass on to customers.
For US Airways, this decade has been a time of reckoning, one that brought pay scales down into line with the rest of the industry - leaving its workforce in turmoil. Since 2002, the airline has filed for bankruptcy protection twice, each time squeezing more concessions from the unions."
I understand a copy of WN contracts was offered to the writers as a counterpoint! B)
With regards to the latest newspaper article, the first one was a good article, excepting this quote:
"Working "on the ramp," hefting bags for US Airways, was once a solid, middle-class job, one that someone with a high school education could count on to buy a house, put kids through college, and allow a comfortable retirement. Workers with decades on the job were commonplace.
Now that's a remote dream for newly hired US Airways ramp workers - a casualty of the industry's deregulation, which brought consumers lower fares, but ended fat labor contracts whose costs airlines once could pass on to customers.
For US Airways, this decade has been a time of reckoning, one that brought pay scales down into line with the rest of the industry - leaving its workforce in turmoil. Since 2002, the airline has filed for bankruptcy protection twice, each time squeezing more concessions from the unions."
I understand a copy of WN contracts was offered to the writers as a counterpoint! B)
How do you know this? Are you making an assumtion? Did someone state this one this Board somewhere before?
I'd be a little surprised to learn that you just pulled this out of your *ss, because that's not like you Art.
Really? So you are saying that the ones who were avoiding work were ALL the senior, well paid employees. All of them? No wonder there was a problem. You must've spent a lot of time on the ramp....
I was under the impression that the problem was the poorly paid new rampers, who don't really give a hoot because they can quit and make the same money slingin' burgers. Thanks for clearing it all up!
D M G,
You're right I would never pull something like this out of the air.
Unfortunately, I have been told by more than one person who works in PHL--agents, rampers, etc. Also, I have seen it first hand (although you can't assume tenure by one's age). And it is not limited to the ramp--I have seen it elsewhere in PHL. It just appears concentrated in PHL--if it exists elsewhere, it is much less visible.
And for Aredee's edification, if you noticed I said a FEW workers are ruining things for everyone else--I never said that ALL the senior workers were bad. The overwhelming majority of the folks in PHL and throughout the system are good hardworking people who do their best to get the job done. Many of the senior workers take immense pride in their jobs, and want things to work right--and these are the folks who should be mentoring the new workers, not the other ones which we ALL know exist.
Wage increases alone will not solve the problem. PHL needs the equipment and staffing necessary to get the job done right, and efficiently. Paying the folks a little more and spending more on equipment are probably more cost effective in the long run that the numerous PAWOBS that currently occur. But that's another topic.....
In past years you had about the same number of slackers who were senior as were junior. Now there's no question, the slackers in the junior ranks far out-number the slackers who are senior.
And you're right, there's no way to tell seniority by age other than knowing an 18-21 year old couldn't have much time.
In no way was I ever saying that ALL the slackers were senior, nor did I ever say that ALL senior workers were slackers. There are a number of factors which contribute to the situation in PHL, not all labor related but a good percentage are. And while the same problems exist in other stations, they just seem to proliferate in PHL, compounded by the unique issues there.
Again let me say that we firmly believe that in order to have happy customers you need happy employees. I think the million dollar question is how do you accomplish that and remain a viable business?
Up to now, perhaps only WN has come close......
My best to you all....
Again let me say that we firmly believe that in order to have happy customers you need happy employees. I think the million dollar question is how do you accomplish that and remain a viable business?
Up to now, perhaps only WN has come close......
My best to you all....
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