Drawing the Line

[FlyOnWall]

Drawing The Line

Interesting article about scope clauses... US is the most regional/short haul/small aircraft of all the majors, but yet has the loosest scope, the most contract carriers, and the only one allowing Express carriers to fly large aircraft. Hopefully the scope can be tightened up in the new contracts.

 

[luvthe9]

That is no suprise, we have the weakest union, DUMP ALPA NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[traderjake]

The reason is we were the weakest airline with the weakest hubs and route structure.

Some of us didn't want to kill it.

 

[700UW]

Maybe if Chris Beebe gave Wolf and Gangwal RJs US would not have been in such bad shape.

 

[Dorf]

Maybe if Chris Beebe gave Wolf and Gangwal RJs US would not have been in such bad shape.

And/or the outsourcing of jobs would have happened sooner rather than later.

 

[FlyOnWall]

You can just hear the glee in Scott Kirby's voice boasting that Express can fly "anything under an E190."

Scope affects everyone. 55 more aircraft in the 70-100 seat range is a whole lot of recalled or new jobs. That's a lot of lines of flying, allowing people to become blockholders instead of reserves, or be in the base they want instead of commuting. Republic Airlines is hiring pilots and F/As off the street to staff the E170 out of Pittsburgh while for mainline well over a decade of seniority is needed to be in PIT, much less hold a block.

 

[traderjake]

Maybe if Chris Beebe gave Wolf and Gangwal RJs US would not have been in such bad shape.

I agree with you except the fault lies with John Davis who controlled the MEC, not Bebee.

And/or the outsourcing of jobs would have happened sooner rather than later.

RJ's didn't hurt Delta. You can't fly a 737 with 50 passengers and stay in business.

 

[Crzipilot]

I'm not quite following this thread or logic of thinking. True, you can't fly a 737 with 50 people. But US didn't always have the most leniant scope. I believe DAL allowed the unlimited rj's or a whole bunch of them, quite some time ago. And in fact US had tougher scope then most, which may or may not have led to the demise. Personally I don't think it led to it, but was another excuse of management to use, as opposed actual management problems. In fact management could have at anytime gotten any size aircraft and operated it. There is nothing that says they must outsource it. BUT it has been a tool for management to break and weaken the unions and lower labor costs so hence it had to go outsourced...

700 saying that ALPA should have given into, giving away the rj's sooner is like, telling you the IAM shoulda allowed alot more outsourcing sooner.

Hindsight is 20/20, but if ALPA would have instituted some type of brand scope a long long time ago, we wouldn't have the issue of Republic and Mesa and such. True, the payscales wouldn't be much to look at, but uhmmmmm.....it would be flown and operated and maintained and serviced by mainline. No???

RJ's didn't hurt Delta.

You sure?

 

[BoeingBoy]

It always amuses me to hear how behind the industry US was when it comes to smaller jets (like "You can't fly a 737 with 50 passengers and stay in business."

Through most of the 90's, US was at or near the top of the industry in percentage of capacity provided by smaller jets (50 - 100 seats). Operated with payscales very similiar to or less than the E170/190 pay that management agrees to today. Management parked them all.

Jim

 

[john john]

The reason is we were the weakest airline with the weakest hubs and route structure.

Some of us didn't want to kill it.

Some of YOU did not want to negotiate.

 

[aerosmith]

Some of YOU did not want to negotiate.

Some of US wern't allowed to negotiate just ask Judge Mitchell

 

[diogenes]

Uhhhh, US did have RJ's - F28's.

And Wolf inherited an ALPA contract that had those payscales still on it. He could have ordered them and handed them to ALPA as a fait accompli.

The BOD was after bigger game - union busting on a broad scale, and permanent lower costs.

 

[john john]

Some of US wern't allowed to negotiate just ask Judge Mitchell

Strike vote help. Judge Mitchell along with Glass and gang got a lot more serious

Management parked them all.

Jim

And layoff all the F-28 pilots and still pay them full paid while on furlough

 

[john john]

Some of us didn't want to kill it.

Just give over haft of it to the outsource express carriers.

 

[john john]

I believe DAL allowed the unlimited rj's or a whole bunch of them, quite some time ago.

DAL mainline will fly EMB-190-95/CRJ-900
• Limited authority to operate 71-76 seat DCI jets, provided that no pilot on the
current seniority list (Troy Kane and above) is placed on furlough.
• 76-seaters will be allowed at DCI, with strict limitations on numbers, and with

incentives for mainline growth.
• If the Company furloughs a pilot on the current seniority list (Troy Kane and above), DCI
cannot fly any of the 71-76 seat jets with more than 70 seats. In fact, they must then
physically remove the excess seats from ALL such aircraft for the balance of this
contract.
o Beginning January 1, 2007, DCI is allowed to operate fifteen jets
configured with 71-76 seats. They may operate these aircraft prior to this
date, but with a maximum of 70 seats.
o On January 1, 2008, DCI is allowed to operate an additional fifteen 71-76
seat jets.
o Additional 71-76 seaters can be added, but only on the basis of mainline
aircraft growth (three 71-76 seaters for one growth mainline aircraft).
• The 12 year captain rate for the EMB-190/CRJ-900 will be $95.70 on June 1,
2006 and subject to the above adjustments.
• The 12 year captain rate for the EMB-195 will be $112.50 on June 1, 2006 and subject to
the above adjustments.