E170s Moving To B/c In Phl

Light Years

Veteran
Aug 27, 2002
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www.usaviation.com
Apparently the E170s are moving to the B/C concourse in PHL. When "MAA" started they were in D, then they were moved to F. They were supposed to move to mainline gates last year (it was even on the website) but then they kept them at F. PHL is the only one of the hubs where the E170s have ever used Express gates, everywhere else they were handled at mainline gates by mainline employees. PHL and DCA have "MAA" specific agents and ramp personell.

So... if they move them to B/C will there be dedicated gates or will they be all over? For now the MAA folks would move over there, but what about when the division ceases to exist?

Will Republic aircraft be handled in the mainline terminal by Piedmont employees, or will mainline people continue to handle the 170s?

What about in the other cities? Will PSA handle them in PIT, or PDT in DC, but at the mainline gates? Or will mainline handle an express carriers planes?

How many layoffs will that cause for mainline CS and Fleet Service in the hubs?
 
Looks like the 170's will be handled by Express on the Express gates in PIT. Not sure how many will be furloughed but our union rep said it is in the area of 30 to 60 full time fleet agents. :(
 
Light Years said:
Apparently the E170s are moving to the B/C concourse in PHL. When "MAA" started they were in D, then they were moved to F. They were supposed to move to mainline gates last year (it was even on the website) but then they kept them at F. PHL is the only one of the hubs where the E170s have ever used Express gates, everywhere else they were handled at mainline gates by mainline employees. PHL and DCA have "MAA" specific agents and ramp personell.

So how is US going to communicate this to PHL-originating customers? Right now, all Express flying is at Terminal F'ed, making it easy for customers flying on Express to go straight there without taking the bus ride. If they make this switch, some Express flights to STL, for instance, will depart from F while others will leave from B/C with no way for the averae customer to know which terminal they need to be at. That sounds like a design for some understandibly cranky customers.
 
DCAview said:
So how is US going to communicate this to PHL-originating customers? Right now, all Express flying is at Terminal F'ed, making it easy for customers flying on Express to go straight there without taking the bus ride. If they make this switch, some Express flights to STL, for instance, will depart from F while others will leave from B/C with no way for the averae customer to know which terminal they need to be at. That sounds like a design for some understandibly cranky customers.
[post="297922"][/post]​
:lol: ;) ;) Yet another BRILLANT move by Al Crellin!!!! What is AW mgmt thinkin by keeping him!!!
 
DCAview said:
So how is US going to communicate this to PHL-originating customers? Right now, all Express flying is at Terminal F'ed, making it easy for customers flying on Express to go straight there without taking the bus ride. If they make this switch, some Express flights to STL, for instance, will depart from F while others will leave from B/C with no way for the averae customer to know which terminal they need to be at. That sounds like a design for some understandibly cranky customers.
[post="297922"][/post]​

"terminal F'ed" :up: that's hysterical

Not only that, but don't they say that if you are on an express flight, you CANNOT check in at B/C ticketing and you have to go to F terminal. Does this mean that you will have to check in at Terminal F and take the bus to B/C to catch your flight? If so, that is absolutely brilliant.
 
US1YFARE said:
"terminal F'ed" :up: that's hysterical

Not only that, but don't they say that if you are on an express flight, you CANNOT check in at B/C ticketing and you have to go to F terminal. Does this mean that you will have to check in at Terminal F and take the bus to B/C to catch your flight? If so, that is absolutely brilliant.
[post="297958"][/post]​

Glad you like the term for everyone's favorite PHL terminal... not. :down:

One thing you can do is do an online checkin, go in through B/C and take the bus to F... unless TSA has changed this since I last did this in January IFRC.
 
US1YFARE said:
Not only that, but don't they say that if you are on an express flight, you CANNOT check in at B/C ticketing and you have to go to F terminal.
[post="297958"][/post]​

They do say that, and even have big signs up to that effect, but if you check in at a kiosk, no one is the wiser. Of course, my knowing that doesn't make it any less confusing for the average traveler.

jimcfs said:
One thing you can do is do an online checkin, go in through B/C and take the bus to F... unless TSA has changed this since I last did this in January IFRC.
[post="297969"][/post]​

Heh, I usually do the opposite...I find the lines are usually way shorter in F when travelling during a busy period, then I take the bus over to B/C. (Heaven forbid PHL ever have an preferred security line open in B or C...there's one open in E though. So much for supporting your biggest tenant. :down: )
 
ringmaruf said:
Heh, I usually do the opposite...I find the lines are usually way shorter in F when travelling during a busy period, then I take the bus over to B/C. (Heaven forbid PHL ever have an preferred security line open in B or C...there's one open in E though. So much for supporting your biggest tenant. :down: )
[post="297976"][/post]​

<Filing for future reference> ;)

I hadn't ever tried that, as I have usually had to go to F'ed when I originate in PHL. I'm sure others who live near PHL can use that tip. :up:
 
US1YFARE said:
"terminal F'ed"  :up:  that's hysterical

Not only that, but don't they say that if you are on an express flight, you CANNOT check in at B/C ticketing and you have to go to F terminal.  Does this mean that you will have to check in at Terminal F and take the bus to B/C to catch your flight?  If so, that is absolutely brilliant.
[post="297958"][/post]​
Actually, the 170's are not express flight(as of yet). They are mainline flights. So, no. You will not have to check in at the f'ed up terminal. After all the 170's are over at Republic..there will be no more of them in B or C. Then they all will be express a/c leaving from express.
 
xoxo said:
Actually, the 170's are not express flight(as of yet). They are mainline flights. So, no. You will not have to check in at the f'ed up terminal. After all the 170's are over at Republic..there will be no more of them in B or C. Then they all will be express a/c leaving from express.
[post="298011"][/post]​

Then why do they say USAIRWAYS EXPRESS on the side of the aircraft?
 
I swear this whole E170 initiative at U is about as succesful as New Coke!

I swear that U should just give the 170's to Republic (or reduce the price to transfer the leases); dump Bedford as an express carrier, letting them use the planes for Delta and United; keep the employees and order 190s and try it over again.
 
US1YFARE said:
Then why do they say USAIRWAYS EXPRESS on the side of the aircraft?
[post="298069"][/post]​


Mainly because of managements desire to destroy as many outstations as possible. If they operate less than X amount of ML flights, they can "Express" the whole station. In addition by selling the 170 as Express it remained under many of the ML pilots radar and they did not realize it is a F-28 DC-9 replacement. I think many are finally realizing what exactly this AC is, especially since they are outsoursing the 170 to repugnant and directly replacing ML flying using the ML code no less.
 
US1YFARE said:
Then why do they say USAIRWAYS EXPRESS on the side of the aircraft?
[post="298069"][/post]​

Thank you for asking!

Here are the reasons, preceded by a little bit of background. US Airways, as in the actual airline, owns and operate a fleet of E170s. They are staffed by US Airways pilots and flights attendants who were furloughed from the Boeings and Airbuses, albelit at humiliating wages that would make a 14 year captain consider a position as a Starbucks barrista instead.

When the E170 order was announced, US, in it's desire to be as inefficient and bureaucratic as possible, decided that they should have a 12th "Express carrier". So they came up with "MidAtlantic Airways", an Express carrier that like Piedmont PSA and at the time Allegheny would be a wholly-owned subsidiary of US Airways Group. Pesky scope clauses dictated that they had to use *gasp* actual US Airways employees for such a large airlplane. Not to be deterred, they decided they couold do so using Airways employees but have contracts not just in parwith, but worse than the airlines they contract with as Express carriers. MidAtlantic would be it's own entity with it's own operating certificate, a start-up airline that happened to employ furloughed US Airways employees exclusively, in seniority order. Even though it was to be a somewhat seperate entity, the aircraft were to be dual class, first and coach, and wear US Airways titles.

However, this isn't what came to be. There was all sorts of farting around in regards to the operating certificate, which was supposed to use the former Potomac Air certificate. Those who have been following along wil remember that Potomac was part of another harebrained idea regarding the proposed United merger. To satisfy antitrust/monopoly concerns, Potomac was going to spin off with Airways Washington National assets to become "DCAir", the first minority owned airline that would inexplicably prosper as a stand alone airline. Obviously, this never happened as United-US Airways never happened. They figured they could use the certifictate that was just laying around, but apparently the Feds had a different view on this. In the end, to get the planes in the air, they killed the idea of an actual airline and put the planes on the US Airways Inc certificate (as in "mainline", the shrinking entity with the Airbus and Boeing birds). This actually saved them alot of headaches- crews could just go through a quick "new plane" training followed by the normal yearly recurrent, and the company could use thier already established employment records etc etc. All of the headaches of a new airline were abloshished- this was now just a recall as far as those nosey FAA folks and such would have to know.

So the first plane was completed and delivered to Pittsbiurgh in late March of 2004. Despite press releases stating the opposite, the aircraft was now in a single class (although much more comfortable) configuration...The aircraft arrived with US AIRWAYS EXPRESS emblazoned across it, which looks like a forty year old man in diapers, but even more bizarrely, by the door it says "MidAtlantic Airways- Operated by US Airways." If you're still follwing along, we have a US Airways plane, Us Airways employees, operating as afictional, non-public airline operating as US Airways Express. US Airways Express, operated by US Airways.

Confused? That's the point.

If the airctaft says US Airways Express on it, Pete Pilot, Frank Flight Attendant, and Ronnie Ramper won't pay much attention to it, and demand to know why more junior employees are doing the same job for drastically less pay. Who do you work for... oh, MidAtlantic, a commuter, that's not me.

The company also came up with a genius way to screw the folks who work on the ground. If your station has more express flights than mainline, we'll change your classification so we can pay you less. That new airlplane- it's express, see, it says it on the side. Yes, we had mainline planes that size a few years ago... but it's Express for the purposes of whether or not you have a pension, or whether yo make $7 an hour instead of $12.

Lastly, as the company seems to view them, the customers. In this regard, there is no mention of Express whatsoever. Who wants to take an Express flight from Philly to Houston? It's certainly not an Express experience, in fact in many ways it's better than "mainline"... we don't want the customers thinking it's Express... that's just for union-busting psychological warfare on our employees. They rigged the flight numbers, the website and the borading passes to show these flights as regular old US Airways flights. They are not required to inform the passenger a they truly are US Airways flights. If they were Express flights operated by another company, they are required by law to make this information available to consumers.

The E170 flights (at least "MAA") use the US product rather than the Express one. They are catered with the full mainline beverage selections (excluding liquor), sell meals as part of the Inflight Cafe program, and do not "planeside check" bags, which according to usairways.com is part of the US Airways Express product. They utilixe US Airways gates in all of the hubs except PHL (which will now change) as opposed to the Express concourses. The aircraft are ground handled by mainline or "MidAtlantic division" employees, as opposed to Express flkights which are handled by Express workers. The crews, and most ground personnel, do not say Express in announcements and such. The only real product difference is the lack of a FC cabin (which isn't needed). The PSA CRJ700s have 70 seats and use the Express product, the 170s have 72 seats and use the US Airways product. Compare the two.

Now, of couse, the company has decided to sell the planes to an Express carrier. Forget employee loyaly, forget that "MAA" was ironically the most customer-complimented part of the entire airline, we can outsource it and have less employees. Just like reservations... are we really going to lose customers because it's someone in El Salvador making pennies answering the phone? Nah... and if so who cares... more money going to to the top, less to the employees who are bound to annoyingly demand more than 18K a year for thier years of service. Forget that successful airlines like Southwest and JetBlue use thier own employees. Sure, we'll have to pay this contractor a guaranteed profit to operate them, but we can have less employees and pit this contactor against another to see who can do it cheapest. And that's what matters... right? So the Republic airplanes, although they should never have even been allowed to operate (actually, they aren't allowed to, but the company is doing it anyway)... thaey are Express for all intensive purposes... sad but true. The rest of them are not though.

It says "US Airways Express" on the side of the plane and that's where it ends. It's there for sheer union and morale busting reasons and that's it.

I hope my brief reply answers your question as to why they say"US Airways Express"on the side. :down:
 
Lightyears,

My hat is off to you! Mgt knows and bets the majority of grunts have not thought
it through and act on these scams. Too many " I got mine " folks who will sell
out the less senior in a heartbeat.

FA