I am at the point now with all the talk about Chap 7 and more employee givebacks of just saying close the doors tomorrow who really cares anymore. Morale is at a all time low and its difficultto find people who care anymore. Most of the planes are full, we are close to the lowest paid in the industry, there is nothing else we can do. I hate to be another TWA or Eastern and give give give only to die in the end. Do us a favor Dave, end this mess now so we may get on with our lives!!
End of PIT hub???!!!
- Thread starter usresman
- Start date
Since Southwest is just starting to bring in maintenance from outside sources, maybe we could eliminate much of our heavy maintenance to get our IAM expense closer to one of our primary competitors, just to help out. I believe if we did this the DIP financing and loan guarantee would be obtained and we would be more like Southwest’s labor contracts.
This would really help the company out. Maybe we should suggest this to management. What do you think? After all, during these dire times this would likely give US Airways access to the capital markets and save the company.
In fact, maybe somebody could just email this idea to Dave Siegel especially since it would not require labor negotiations with a 6.5-year contract. After all, you're just trying to get costs down during these dire times, right?
Chip
This would really help the company out. Maybe we should suggest this to management. What do you think? After all, during these dire times this would likely give US Airways access to the capital markets and save the company.
In fact, maybe somebody could just email this idea to Dave Siegel especially since it would not require labor negotiations with a 6.5-year contract. After all, you're just trying to get costs down during these dire times, right?
Chip
pitguy
Veteran
Please note that Southwest is bringing more work in-house every day. It is widely accepted by many in the know that it is not wise to outsource some major sections of your airline maintenance due to quality, cost, and control constraints.
I also believe they do not pay their pilots when they are not flying ( no buying of trips, etc...).
I also believe they do not pay their pilots when they are not flying ( no buying of trips, etc...).
[blockquote]
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On 10/25/2002 6:36:35 PM chipmunn wrote:
Since Southwest is just starting to bring in maintenance from outside sources, maybe we could eliminate much of our heavy maintenance to get our IAM expense closer to one of our primary competitors, just to help out. I believe if we did this the DIP financing and loan guarantee would be obtained and we would be more like Southwest’s labor contracts.
This would really help the company out. Maybe we should suggest this to management. What do you think? After all, during these dire times this would likely give US Airways access to the capital markets and save the company.
In fact, maybe somebody could just email this idea to Dave Siegel especially since it would not require labor negotiations with a 6.5-year contract. After all, you're just trying to get costs down during these dire times, right?
Chip
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[/blockquote]
Chip, Maybe we can hold on long enough for Pilotless Technology to replace the burden that your salary brings into the equation. I'm sure your lofty salary for Part-time efforts has to have an impact on the bottom line too!!
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On 10/25/2002 6:36:35 PM chipmunn wrote:
Since Southwest is just starting to bring in maintenance from outside sources, maybe we could eliminate much of our heavy maintenance to get our IAM expense closer to one of our primary competitors, just to help out. I believe if we did this the DIP financing and loan guarantee would be obtained and we would be more like Southwest’s labor contracts.
This would really help the company out. Maybe we should suggest this to management. What do you think? After all, during these dire times this would likely give US Airways access to the capital markets and save the company.
In fact, maybe somebody could just email this idea to Dave Siegel especially since it would not require labor negotiations with a 6.5-year contract. After all, you're just trying to get costs down during these dire times, right?
Chip
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[/blockquote]
Chip, Maybe we can hold on long enough for Pilotless Technology to replace the burden that your salary brings into the equation. I'm sure your lofty salary for Part-time efforts has to have an impact on the bottom line too!!
pitguy
Veteran
Chip if the you or company had the intentions of outsourcing the maintenance work, then it would have been prudent for you and/or them not to have worked so hard to 'sell' the contract that was thrown at the mechanics. Now being in CH-11 it would be near impossible to outsource since a maintenance vender would desire 'cash in advance'. Sometimes in business and negotiating 'timing' is a major factor.
Not all people have the God given sense to have common sense. pitguy, 2002
In poker you play the cards in your hand now, not what you had in your hand before. Unless your a loser. pitguy 2002
Not all people have the God given sense to have common sense. pitguy, 2002
In poker you play the cards in your hand now, not what you had in your hand before. Unless your a loser. pitguy 2002
Chip, Very good idea. Given the increase of workload by the Southwest Maintenance Department, they will be required to hire more maintenance and related. That way I will be able to work for a company who has managers running departments, not morons. U with what few maintenance needs they have left can then contract out those needs. Have them talk to some of the ex Sabre Tech people, I am sure they will be avaliable even at U's pay scale!
Sabre, Pitguy, Lakeguy67, & AOG-N-IT,
Since Sabre started this concept of driving down pilot pay may even more, with this thread titled “How low in wages would a pilot go?†and Pitguy has been leading the charge to have US pilots fly wide and narrow body aircraft for 70-seat RJ wages, I did some thought about eliminating all heavy maintenance work to more align the companies total labor expense towards one of its principle competitors Southwest.
Apparently, A&P Tech now agrees with this cost control idea and it’s gaining momentum, but I disagree with Lakeguy’s comment of this not being trade unionist because it would help out the other seven unions on the property. Pitguy is correct in that it would not provide immediate cash flow, but what it unquestionably would do would project a huge tangible cost savings into the future that would definitely be embraced by the creditor’s committee, the ATSB, and the Equity Plan Sponsor.
After much though the savings would be enormous and have many other tangible benefits for the airline. The first benefit would be the elimination of only 3,000 of the second highest paid labor group versus elimination of 35,000 jobs in a Chapter 7 liquidation. I know this would be difficult on those who would leave company employment, but would be great help to MSP, AFA, CWA, IAM-FSA, TWU, & ALPA employees.
In addition with the reduced head count, other savings could be saved by not having to fund the pensions of these employees, elimination of maintenance training, and during the bankruptcy process the company could seek to abrogate the hangar lease expenses in PIT, CLT, & TPA.
Another tangible benefit is that US Airways could immediately provide a business plan that would meet ATSB requirements for a 7 percent profit margin in 7 years and likely spark a bidding war for interested parties to become the Equity Plan Sponsor. This week the company expected 2 or 3 potential bidders to review corporate data, but if the company changed the business plan and identified the enormous cost savings of outsourcing heavy maintenance, just to help out like Pit Guy and Sabre have suggested, the company would likely see an investment much greater than the $240 million offered by RSA.
Sabre and Pitguy, what do you say, we could do an analysis of seeing if taking wide body and narrow body pilot pay down to RJ rates or outsourcing heavy maintenance and see which would save the most money. After running the numbers, I believe outsourcing maintenance would save significantly more money and better position the company for growth in the future. This growth would help out MSP, AFA, CWA, IAM-FSA, TWU, & ALPA with more mainline opportunities by more closely aligning the US maintenance cost with Southwest.
Sabre and Pit Guy, with all due respect, I’m not trying to pick a fight, but since you have brought up this idea of how we can help save the company, why don’t we suggest to management the idea of outsourcing all heavy maintenance to management, just to help out?
Chip
Since Sabre started this concept of driving down pilot pay may even more, with this thread titled “How low in wages would a pilot go?†and Pitguy has been leading the charge to have US pilots fly wide and narrow body aircraft for 70-seat RJ wages, I did some thought about eliminating all heavy maintenance work to more align the companies total labor expense towards one of its principle competitors Southwest.
Apparently, A&P Tech now agrees with this cost control idea and it’s gaining momentum, but I disagree with Lakeguy’s comment of this not being trade unionist because it would help out the other seven unions on the property. Pitguy is correct in that it would not provide immediate cash flow, but what it unquestionably would do would project a huge tangible cost savings into the future that would definitely be embraced by the creditor’s committee, the ATSB, and the Equity Plan Sponsor.
After much though the savings would be enormous and have many other tangible benefits for the airline. The first benefit would be the elimination of only 3,000 of the second highest paid labor group versus elimination of 35,000 jobs in a Chapter 7 liquidation. I know this would be difficult on those who would leave company employment, but would be great help to MSP, AFA, CWA, IAM-FSA, TWU, & ALPA employees.
In addition with the reduced head count, other savings could be saved by not having to fund the pensions of these employees, elimination of maintenance training, and during the bankruptcy process the company could seek to abrogate the hangar lease expenses in PIT, CLT, & TPA.
Another tangible benefit is that US Airways could immediately provide a business plan that would meet ATSB requirements for a 7 percent profit margin in 7 years and likely spark a bidding war for interested parties to become the Equity Plan Sponsor. This week the company expected 2 or 3 potential bidders to review corporate data, but if the company changed the business plan and identified the enormous cost savings of outsourcing heavy maintenance, just to help out like Pit Guy and Sabre have suggested, the company would likely see an investment much greater than the $240 million offered by RSA.
Sabre and Pitguy, what do you say, we could do an analysis of seeing if taking wide body and narrow body pilot pay down to RJ rates or outsourcing heavy maintenance and see which would save the most money. After running the numbers, I believe outsourcing maintenance would save significantly more money and better position the company for growth in the future. This growth would help out MSP, AFA, CWA, IAM-FSA, TWU, & ALPA with more mainline opportunities by more closely aligning the US maintenance cost with Southwest.
Sabre and Pit Guy, with all due respect, I’m not trying to pick a fight, but since you have brought up this idea of how we can help save the company, why don’t we suggest to management the idea of outsourcing all heavy maintenance to management, just to help out?
Chip
pitguy
Veteran
[blockquote]
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On 10/26/2002 2:31:25 AM chipmunn wrote:
Sabre and Pitguy, what do you say, we could do an analysis of seeing if taking wide body and narrow body pilot pay down to RJ rates or outsourcing heavy maintenance and see which would save the most money.
Chip
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[/blockquote]
With Chapter 7 looming in the darkness and about to pounce on our company any day now, we obviously need to do both.
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On 10/26/2002 2:31:25 AM chipmunn wrote:
Sabre and Pitguy, what do you say, we could do an analysis of seeing if taking wide body and narrow body pilot pay down to RJ rates or outsourcing heavy maintenance and see which would save the most money.
Chip
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[/blockquote]
With Chapter 7 looming in the darkness and about to pounce on our company any day now, we obviously need to do both.
