Envoy training mysteries

[galley princess]

So I attended envoy training. I remember attending Envoy training under Wolfe. It was an exciting time, new airplanes coming, the Culinary Institute doing the training, a wine tasting, you get the picture.

Fast forward to now. Morale at an all time low, recently voted the worst airline in the world, no real answers on what will go on this summer, as the A330 becomes more decrepit and the video system more possessed by evil spirits. The whole thing was sort of an exercise in cynicism. Rightly so, the instructors told us up front, "don't even start, I'm not the person to complain to." I actually appreciated that because I wanted to get it done and go home. (By the way, the silly training could have been done in a conference room, in base for PHL, but as usual, make it as difficult as possible for the grunts.) It didn't prevent one or two from expostulating their displeasure, but a few reminders that we had flights to catch and they finally quieted down.

How different this would all be if they would invest in the employees. That was the big difference. Wolfe invested in the flight attendants. For AWA, we're just a tool that must conform! The service looks decent, I am glad that they're addressing it, but they should realize, just because you put the f/a in the customer's way more often, doesn't mean that the flight attendant's morale will go up. The days of US f/a's making it fun are gone, from what I can see. They're too tired from flying a zillion hours. They'll do that service as quick as they can so they can take their break.

By the way, I would hope that the union would do something about the fact that the company wants 5 full beverage services in the back of the A330 again. I was okay with 4, but that 5th one is ridiculous. Once again, we're asked to do more for and with less. I will be surprised if it is complied with once a coordinator is not on board.

They need to put another flight attendant on board the aircraft. Especially the A330, if they have any hope of regaining a decent service.

 

[PHLfa88]

<_<

So I attended envoy training. I remember attending Envoy training under Wolfe. It was an exciting time, new airplanes coming, the Culinary Institute doing the training, a wine tasting, you get the picture.

Fast forward to now. Morale at an all time low, recently voted the worst airline in the world, no real answers on what will go on this summer, as the A330 becomes more decrepit and the video system more possessed by evil spirits. The whole thing was sort of an exercise in cynicism. Rightly so, the instructors told us up front, "don't even start, I'm not the person to complain to." I actually appreciated that because I wanted to get it done and go home. (By the way, the silly training could have been done in a conference room, in base for PHL, but as usual, make it as difficult as possible for the grunts.) It didn't prevent one or two from expostulating their displeasure, but a few reminders that we had flights to catch and they finally quieted down.

How different this would all be if they would invest in the employees. That was the big difference. Wolfe invested in the flight attendants. For AWA, we're just a tool that must conform! The service looks decent, I am glad that they're addressing it, but they should realize, just because you put the f/a in the customer's way more often, doesn't mean that the flight attendant's morale will go up. The days of US f/a's making it fun are gone, from what I can see. They're too tired from flying a zillion hours. They'll do that service as quick as they can so they can take their break.

By the way, I would hope that the union would do something about the fact that the company wants 5 full beverage services in the back of the A330 again. I was okay with 4, but that 5th one is ridiculous. Once again, we're asked to do more for and with less. I will be surprised if it is complied with once a coordinator is not on board.

They need to put another flight attendant on board the aircraft. Especially the A330, if they have any hope of regaining a decent service.

If You Don't Like It Then Fly Domestic! I Thought What They Are Doing Is Very Nice! COMMENT DELETED BY MODERATOR

 

[PHX PHLyer]

By the way, I would hope that the union would do something about the fact that the company wants 5 full beverage services in the back of the A330 again. I was okay with 4, but that 5th one is ridiculous. Once again, we're asked to do more for and with less. I will be surprised if it is complied with once a coordinator is not on board.

This is the problem with unionized labor in this country. Are you trying to tell me that you don't have enough time to physically do that many beverage services, or are you just mad because you won't get any extra money for it? If I am paying an employee by the hour...and I find that in their 8 hour work day they work for two hours, then go sit and read a magazine for an hour, then work for another hour, then go chat with colleagues for 30 minutes, then do another hour and a half of work, then go do a sudoku puzzle...etc, I am going to find work for them to do the entire time. I am paying you BY THE HOUR....that is=>for each hour of "WORK". When I give you enough work so that you can no longer relax and read a magazine or chat up other employees, don't get mad at me and tell me that you should be paid more. In my opinion, if they want to still have the same free time to do all of that stuff, they need to clock in and out every time they start reading a magazine, doing a crossword, or going to shoot the sh*t. You are being paid to work...so just because they are filling up your paid time with more work doesn't mean you should be paid more. What about the flights where they fight the entire time to even get 1 drink service done during the short duration of the flight? They are working the whole time and still only getting paid the same wage as someone who flies a red-eye and can basically do nothing the whole flight. Don't complain about having to work while you are getting paid to do so...you give a bad name to labor in this country.

 

[700UW]

What about the time they board, deboard and clean and dont get paid for it?

 

[PHX PHLyer]

What about the time they board, deboard and clean and dont get paid for it?

I agree that that stipulation simply sucks for lack of a better word. I was talking to some people, telling them that pilots and flight attendants are only paid for flight hours-after the plane leaves the gate. They basically tried to call me a liar. They said that FAs and pilots-most likely by law-would have to be paid starting from the minimum time they are required to be at the airport by the airline. I told them that was not the case, but I do agree that that is how FAs and pilots should be paid.

But back to the point, it doesn't matter...because no one gets paid during boarding, deplaning and cleaning. But some must work the entire time, while others claim that taking time away from their relaxation and gossip time means they should be paid more. It just sounds like pure laziness...and the problem with unionized labor where they feel they can get away with so much more (like being paid while reading a magazine) and that this is a right that the company cannot take from them without asking for more pay. Give me a break...your hourly wage is for hourly work

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

PHX-PHL How would it feel to work at SAFEWAY or the PIGGLY WIGGLY for 14 hours a day and the company pays you for 5 hours ????? If you did, I could assure you would work like a DEMON right??? WRONG!!!! When you work a full schedule and make less than 25,000 dollars a year (which is below poverty level) unless your in PHX, is much less than desirable.. I can assure you, I do only what is required by the book, (and I do it well and am nice and courteous) but after that, toooooo bad, I am not being paid enough to run around like a flight attendant that is afraid of Ms. Shambles riding around on her white horse.... fugggeetttt about it!!!

 

[PHLfa88]

Normally I'd agree with you Whole Heartedly as you are dead bang correct regarding the concept of hourly wage and work performance.

HOWEVER when it come to the wonderful wacky world of commercial aviation and F/A's logic is the first casualty.

The whole way in which F/A's are paid just boggles my mind. 14 hours on or around planes can generate less than 7 hours in actual hourly pay.

Then consider the REAL reason they are there! Which I assure you is NOT to keep me full of Gin & Tonic but rather to ensure safety. Be it an In Flight Emergency such as a heart attack or an emergency landing. So part of what you pay a F/A for he/she may never use. They are in essence insurance for an emergency that will very seldom occur.

If you are there to work for Heavens Sake WORK! Make it as pleasant for you and your customer as you can given the tools you have at your disposal. Personal pride in a job well done is great morale builder and it's contagious. You are responsible for mining your own acre of diamonds. Not the Company, Union or anyone else it's just you. Life is what YOU make out of it and everyday you have a choice to happy or bitter. Doug parker doesn't control that, YOU DO!

Piney,
You Know You and I DOn't Agree On Many Things...But...That Was Well Said InDeed!! Thanks!!

 

[PHLfa88]

PHX-PHL How would it feel to work at SAFEWAY or the PIGGLY WIGGLY for 14 hours a day and the company pays you for 5 hours ????? If you did, I could assure you would work like a DEMON right??? WRONG!!!! When you work a full schedule and make less than 25,000 dollars a year (which is below poverty level) unless your in PHX, is much less than desirable.. I can assure you, I do only what is required by the book, (and I do it well and am nice and courteous) but after that, toooooo bad, I am not being paid enough to run around like a flight attendant that is afraid of Ms. Shambles riding around on her white horse.... fugggeetttt about it!!!

Right On !!

 

[galley princess]

With the exception of 2 posters, one of whom told me to fly domestic, and another that actually got my point, I have no interest in the opinions of non flight attendants. You wouldn't last two seconds with a planeload of Italians or French who don't understand that an airplane with an economy section the size it is on the A330 that if they are in row 6, they will see me once and then not again for another hour because it takes that long to get through the cabin, and that isn't including the 60 video resets, the restock in the middle of the cabin, and actually trying to smile and do a proper job.

The point is, AWA wants me to do a service that required 14 flight attendants with 9. If you accept that kind of work environment, without complaint, that's your choice. There is such a thing as a reasonable working environment, and I resent getting beat to hell in 9 hours. PHX flyer, Your egregious lack of knowledge is humourous. An A330 is a negative stimulation nightmare. The call bells never stop and in the economy section, and the galley was designed by a sadist. A flight attendant can't sit on a jumpseat because it's a futile exercise. The bathroom doors open two inches from it, and you have to get up to let someone in and out. Throw in that you are on at minimum a 13 day and it tends to be tiring. If I read a newspaper on that plane it's because we're delayed. I could explain a bit more, but your intellect isn't worth the effort.

As for the comment to work domestic, I'll let that slide as a reserve that hardly ever flys, and therefore knows nothing of 5 international trips. As it happens, I do have a choice not to work the A330, most of the time. For those too dim to get it, I was pointing out that all of the service procedures in the world do not make for a happy, therefore pleasant to be around, crew. And, for those not yet acquainted with Envoy training, the point was endlessly made that the surveys indicated that a large part of whether or not a person had a good flight was the attitude of the crew.

Can we agree that you get what you pay for? US f/as are paid abysmally.

Now, if you are a flight attendant and enjoy doing 5 beverages and two juice and waters, answering endless call bells and doing at minimum 60-80 video re-sets with a minimum crew and think that I should, fire away. Otherwise, you're irrelevant.

 

[AlleghenyVista]

With 6 FAs working the Economy Class cabin there is no reason not to do the proper service. The "B" and "H" FAs work from the back galley, and if working properly can get at least 10 rows served. The other 4 FAs can easily serve the rest of the cabin.

There is just no reason to do a "push-pull" on a 8-9 hr flight. It was nice to see on a recent MUC trip that was 9:40 flying time coming home, that the entire Y class crew agreed to to the full proper service.

 

[galley princess]

Aw Piney, right after I hit ADD I remembered you. Give a girl a twisted panty break.

 

[YVINTERN]

Roger That Boston Tower, PineySqueeze 77 Coming in to Land

 

[flygirl74]

"As for the comment to work domestic, I'll let that slide as a reserve that hardly ever flys, and therefore knows nothing of 5 international trips. "

You might want to do a liitle research before throwing around the reserve comment. Many of us reserves (we actually have real names, try using it on the trip) were on the "division" back in the day. I remember doing my five trips. I also remember with the full compliment of f/a's people STILL tried to slack come service time. Also, reserve in PHL is 1990. Hardly junior. And there are 450 of us. We might rarely fly, but we still have YEARS of experience. I only flew a few times this month, but I still think I can open a can of Coke. And pour.

Fast forward to today. With all the senior mama commuters shleping across the country, then sleeping in the crewroom, then getting on the trip crying how tired they are. Let's do push pull, I'm tired from overflying!! I need the money - I have bills you know. Then there are 45 call bells an hour from lack of service, and they act like they never heard the bell. Puhleeze.

 

[AlleghenyVista]

"As for the comment to work domestic, I'll let that slide as a reserve that hardly ever flys, and therefore knows nothing of 5 international trips. "

You might want to do a liitle research before throwing around the reserve comment. Many of us reserves (we actually have real names, try using it on the trip) were on the "division" back in the day. I remember doing my five trips. I also remember with the full compliment of f/a's people STILL tried to slack come service time. Also, reserve in PHL is 1990. Hardly junior. And there are 450 of us. We might rarely fly, but we still have YEARS of experience. I only flew a few times this month, but I still think I can open a can of Coke. And pour.

Fast forward to today. With all the senior mama commuters shleping across the country, then sleeping in the crewroom, then getting on the trip crying how tired they are. Let's do push pull, I'm tired from overflying!! I need the money - I have bills you know. Then there are 45 call bells an hour from lack of service, and they act like they never heard the bell. Puhleeze.

Right on girl. I have had it with all these lazy senior mamas(not all you now!) trying to cut corners with the service. Its not that hard. Sorry that you cant read a few extra pages of your OK! or Hello! magazine.

 

[N965VJ]

Just an observation, but I find it interesting that whenever a poster bashes a Union, it seems to be someone from out west.