Fema Contracts Commercial Airlines
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EricLv2Fish said:
Personally I think ANY president would have been down there before Bush. What is more important to him is to spend vacation time in his little house in Texas. It truly disgusts me. What disgusts me further is when the news said, "Bush is cutting 2 days off from his vacation to go down to NOLA to view the damage." He should have gotten off his butt and went straight to NOLA from his home ranch. There was no need for him to come back to Washington.
Furthermore I just finished watching MSNBC just now and they quoted Bush for saying that they had NO idea that the levies would break. And yet they had a test drive of this last year as they had a simulated storm called Pam that came into NOLA last year. They said that a CAT 3 or higher storm would break the levies. The president coming out and stated that they had no idea they would break is a flat out lie. They were informed that anything with a direct hit to NOLA would flood the city of NOLA and a levee breach would probably happen.
Just disgusts me how everyone is looking to dodge the bullet here.
ClueByFour said:
I agree 100%. I must have been watching different news programs because the mayor and governor were asking for help from the get-go. Have you read Mike Brown's background? Prior to taking over FEMA he was responsible for monitoring the judging of Arabian Horse Shows!
One other comment that is going to sound very harsh. There are/were people who refused to leave even with a mandatory evacuation. These people are not infirmed nor are they without financial means. They place a greater concern about personal property than human life. What about personal responsibility?
OK.. One more comment..what about the safety of the police and fireman? There are a few hoodlums that should be left to drown.
Blast away....
Any one whos hobby or knowledge is tropical weather knows that there are 3 worse case scenerios. The first is New Orleans. Blame all you want for the levy situation, but also keep in mind ALL who were elected president did not improve the levy situation. And I am talking from those who served from the 60s to current day. In fairness to all the government officials no one has gone through a major catastrophe such as Katrina. There were people in MS who went through Camille which was a catagory 5 and stayed because there house made it through. Now we had Katrina who was a catagory 4 took their home. The old saying that no two snowflakes are alike applies here...no two hurricanes are alike. As far as blame goes...it goes all around. From the City officals past and present for not having an decent hurricane plan. To the governor who took way to much time in calling the feds for assitance and the slow responce from FEMA. I for one would hate to think that politics were being played and if it was being played it cost quite a few peoples lives. For those from Usairways and others airlines to all those who either donated money, clothes, food, tiime ect.. I SAY THANK YOU!!!! BTW if you are interested in the the other 2 worse case scenerios threatened by a major hurricane that would be Long Island and the Chesepeake Bay area.....
General Honore....executive leadership the world over must study this leader...
common sense is so uncommon
...but he is blessed with an abundance of common sense..
hope they publish a book on all his "honore-isms"
to paraphrase General Honore :
we just finished playing the 1st half of a very tough football game.
it is now halftime and we are losing 50-0....
now what are we going to do?...
talk about what we did in the 1st half...
or
look forward and get the job done in the 2nd half?
...........
and:
Getting food and water to the people at the city's convention center was a difficult process, Honore said.
"If you ever have 20,000 people come to supper, you know what I'm talking about. If it's easy, it would have been done already."
.......
and:
The general came to rescue of one young mother trying to carry her twin babies down the street in the terrible heat and humidity of New Orleans, Starr reported. The mother was so exhausted the children were almost falling out of her arms.
The general went up to the woman and took both of her babies, handing them off to soldiers to carry, as he promised the mother that they were going to get her some help. The troops helped the three hurricane victims to a Coast Guard ship, where they were treated for exhaustion and dehydration.
.....
finally...
ATLANTA - When the cavalry finally arrived in New Orleans to help the survivors of Hurricane Katrina, a cigar-chomping three-star general led the way.
That was Lt. Gen. Russel Honore, commander of the 1st Army, based at Fort Gillem in Atlanta. Normally he oversees training for all deploying troops on the East Coast.
For the time being, the Louisiana native is the man in charge on the front line in New Orleans. He is also coordinating military relief efforts for all storm-ravaged areas along the Gulf Coast.
Honore is winning over even some of the government's harshest critics, including New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, who blasted the Bush administration's initial response to his city's disaster.
"He came off the doggone chopper, and he started cussing, and people started moving," Nagin told a radio station. "I give the president some credit on this. He sent one John Wayne dude down here that can get some stuff done."
Honore and thousands of National Guard troops rolled in Friday and Saturday, bringing food, water and a sense of safety.
The general was careful to show he was leading a humanitarian relief mission in his home state.
"Put those ... weapons down!" he yelled to troops rolling in on trucks.
He repeatedly strode up to soldiers, and sometimes the local police, telling everyone to point their guns down, reminding them they were "not in Iraq."
.....
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/honore.profile/
thank you General for being there!
and thank you President Bush for selecting General Honore....
good leadership on the President's part!
common sense is so uncommon
...but he is blessed with an abundance of common sense..
hope they publish a book on all his "honore-isms"
to paraphrase General Honore :
we just finished playing the 1st half of a very tough football game.
it is now halftime and we are losing 50-0....
now what are we going to do?...
talk about what we did in the 1st half...
or
look forward and get the job done in the 2nd half?
...........
and:
Getting food and water to the people at the city's convention center was a difficult process, Honore said.
"If you ever have 20,000 people come to supper, you know what I'm talking about. If it's easy, it would have been done already."
.......
and:
The general came to rescue of one young mother trying to carry her twin babies down the street in the terrible heat and humidity of New Orleans, Starr reported. The mother was so exhausted the children were almost falling out of her arms.
The general went up to the woman and took both of her babies, handing them off to soldiers to carry, as he promised the mother that they were going to get her some help. The troops helped the three hurricane victims to a Coast Guard ship, where they were treated for exhaustion and dehydration.
.....
finally...
ATLANTA - When the cavalry finally arrived in New Orleans to help the survivors of Hurricane Katrina, a cigar-chomping three-star general led the way.
That was Lt. Gen. Russel Honore, commander of the 1st Army, based at Fort Gillem in Atlanta. Normally he oversees training for all deploying troops on the East Coast.
For the time being, the Louisiana native is the man in charge on the front line in New Orleans. He is also coordinating military relief efforts for all storm-ravaged areas along the Gulf Coast.
Honore is winning over even some of the government's harshest critics, including New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, who blasted the Bush administration's initial response to his city's disaster.
"He came off the doggone chopper, and he started cussing, and people started moving," Nagin told a radio station. "I give the president some credit on this. He sent one John Wayne dude down here that can get some stuff done."
Honore and thousands of National Guard troops rolled in Friday and Saturday, bringing food, water and a sense of safety.
The general was careful to show he was leading a humanitarian relief mission in his home state.
"Put those ... weapons down!" he yelled to troops rolling in on trucks.
He repeatedly strode up to soldiers, and sometimes the local police, telling everyone to point their guns down, reminding them they were "not in Iraq."
.....
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/honore.profile/
thank you General for being there!
and thank you President Bush for selecting General Honore....
good leadership on the President's part!
FWIW, as a mere TX resident who's been watching a lot of TV coverage, here's my scorecard at all levels of Government:
New Orleans; Nagin Well, at least he got mad. But the complete breakdown of local law enforcement communications (news reports early in the week said dead batteries), suggest the mayor and council didn't even do the bare minimum of preparation. When you see the re-run clips of the Sunday morning order to evacuate, Nagin was meally-mouthed and feeble -- no wonder not enough people left. Truly out of his depth. C-
State: Blanco etc. Seemed to have a better grasp of what was going on, and gave a clearer meesage. But didn't seem to be able to line up any resources or to exert any pressure at the national level to get things going. B-
National level Just pathetic. The excuses, the lack of action -- Chertoff and Brown being particularly odious. At least Bush's handlers finally got him to admit that where things were not good enough, they'd fix it. Chertoff and Brown didn't even go there. The continued reports of FEMA's imposed red tape are unbelievable. The c**p that Chertoff has spouted about "two separate disasters" was ridiculous -- as if the levees would fail without a hurricane. How many more lives might have been saved if the troops had got there a day earlier. And only now are they setting up a joint operations center? Utterly, horrifically, pathetic F
Texas Politicians It wasn't always smooth (Gov. Perry announcing Dallas would take 25,000 evacuees without telling the Mayor or City Manager) but the general can-do attitude at all levels from the state governor down to individuals was a blessed relief compared to the ineffectual excuse making everywhere else. Felt proud to be a (naturalized) Texan -- something I thought I'd never say. A
Others (MA, AL) -- can't comment, based on the coverage I've seen, though Barber (MS) seems unable to call a spade a spade.
The Media When even Fox News is bewailing the lack of action by the Feds, you know Bush is in trouble and there has been a massive failure of his administration. CNN, NBC, Fox, all showed an ability to get people into the affected areas and get a grasp on the situation that completely eluded Brown, Chertoff and others. Some of it was self-serving (Geraldo helping wheelchair-bound people while still holding his mike) but overall they did, in my view, a great job and held the pols accountable.
There are a lot of lessons to be learnt .... Chertoff (Homeland Security) and Brown (FEMA) at a minimum should go.
Had to vent this somewhere .... it's not Republican vs. Democrat, local vs. federal. The people in the affected areas were badly let down by all levels of their government.
New Orleans; Nagin Well, at least he got mad. But the complete breakdown of local law enforcement communications (news reports early in the week said dead batteries), suggest the mayor and council didn't even do the bare minimum of preparation. When you see the re-run clips of the Sunday morning order to evacuate, Nagin was meally-mouthed and feeble -- no wonder not enough people left. Truly out of his depth. C-
State: Blanco etc. Seemed to have a better grasp of what was going on, and gave a clearer meesage. But didn't seem to be able to line up any resources or to exert any pressure at the national level to get things going. B-
National level Just pathetic. The excuses, the lack of action -- Chertoff and Brown being particularly odious. At least Bush's handlers finally got him to admit that where things were not good enough, they'd fix it. Chertoff and Brown didn't even go there. The continued reports of FEMA's imposed red tape are unbelievable. The c**p that Chertoff has spouted about "two separate disasters" was ridiculous -- as if the levees would fail without a hurricane. How many more lives might have been saved if the troops had got there a day earlier. And only now are they setting up a joint operations center? Utterly, horrifically, pathetic F
Texas Politicians It wasn't always smooth (Gov. Perry announcing Dallas would take 25,000 evacuees without telling the Mayor or City Manager) but the general can-do attitude at all levels from the state governor down to individuals was a blessed relief compared to the ineffectual excuse making everywhere else. Felt proud to be a (naturalized) Texan -- something I thought I'd never say. A
Others (MA, AL) -- can't comment, based on the coverage I've seen, though Barber (MS) seems unable to call a spade a spade.
The Media When even Fox News is bewailing the lack of action by the Feds, you know Bush is in trouble and there has been a massive failure of his administration. CNN, NBC, Fox, all showed an ability to get people into the affected areas and get a grasp on the situation that completely eluded Brown, Chertoff and others. Some of it was self-serving (Geraldo helping wheelchair-bound people while still holding his mike) but overall they did, in my view, a great job and held the pols accountable.
There are a lot of lessons to be learnt .... Chertoff (Homeland Security) and Brown (FEMA) at a minimum should go.
Had to vent this somewhere .... it's not Republican vs. Democrat, local vs. federal. The people in the affected areas were badly let down by all levels of their government.
The mentality of cradle to grave guarantee in life is what this is all about. Life has no guarantees, but try telling the lawyers that, and you hear them saying, "you deserve this or that" when in reality if we all received what we deserved, in God’s eyes, everything would seem a gift. His fault, her fault, blame it on God if it makes you feel better, then chalk it up to life.SVQLBA said:
SegmentKing
Veteran
Well, unfortunately we have communication levels that require certain things be done. The mayor of N.O. couldn't call Bushy and say "help me"... the governor had to do that. Its called chain of command.
And again, I live in a place that is affected by hurricanes almost weekly (or it feels like it). If our lil island of barely 10,000 and our chain with 25,000 can get everyone out 5 days BEFORE the storm, you would think a state of a couple million and a city of 690,000 would try just a bit HARDER to realize the threat of a hurricane and issue evac orders and do what they can BEFORE it hits to get everyone out....
.. and when you don't, you have a mess that NO is in now.
many, many, MANY lessons are being learned from this storm... may there be more survivors the next time this happens.
And again, I live in a place that is affected by hurricanes almost weekly (or it feels like it). If our lil island of barely 10,000 and our chain with 25,000 can get everyone out 5 days BEFORE the storm, you would think a state of a couple million and a city of 690,000 would try just a bit HARDER to realize the threat of a hurricane and issue evac orders and do what they can BEFORE it hits to get everyone out....
.. and when you don't, you have a mess that NO is in now.
many, many, MANY lessons are being learned from this storm... may there be more survivors the next time this happens.
whatkindoffreshhell
Veteran
Can you believe that Michael Brown (FEMA boss) is a political appointee arranged by a college chum -- and Brown's previous, highest job was Chairperson of the Arabian Horse Association????
ESPECIALLY in this post-911 world, how could the Bushies be so monumentally stooooopid to appoint this guy?
(but I digress, thanks to all those genuine volunteers, who lend comfort to those poor souls abandoned by their LOCAL politicians)
ESPECIALLY in this post-911 world, how could the Bushies be so monumentally stooooopid to appoint this guy?
(but I digress, thanks to all those genuine volunteers, who lend comfort to those poor souls abandoned by their LOCAL politicians)
Anyone who blames the mayor of NO for the problems there is an idiot and that is a softly as I can put it.
Notwithstanding years of cuts to the Army corp of engineer budgets that was to cover the upkeep and to make the levee stronger.
Poor people who have no vehicles how do you get them out ..
And how do you transport them the highways east and west of I-10 was clogged.
Sure there was ways to do it ..we could flew them out amtrak them out but yeh hindsight is 20/20.
Even if over 3000 national guards from LA was not in Iraq I doubt if anything would have changed.
People talk about seeking out a scapegoat and blaming the local, state and federal politicians who are now in power, But thats not the root cause of this tragedy.
The root cause my friends goes back to cost analysis done that said it would COST too much to update the levee.
Another cause is when we heard that Katrina was CAt 5 troops and supplies should have been staged to go in immediately to rescue people...especially sinse its a fact that the levee would not withstand Cat 3 hurricane.
Whose call would that have been to mobilise FEMA and the president of course.
But Fema director does not know his A$$ from ......... and president bush is on vacation going to fund raisers.. :down:
Lets all be reasonable here.
The scapegoat is the mayor of New Orleans
Notwithstanding years of cuts to the Army corp of engineer budgets that was to cover the upkeep and to make the levee stronger.
Poor people who have no vehicles how do you get them out ..
And how do you transport them the highways east and west of I-10 was clogged.
Sure there was ways to do it ..we could flew them out amtrak them out but yeh hindsight is 20/20.
Even if over 3000 national guards from LA was not in Iraq I doubt if anything would have changed.
People talk about seeking out a scapegoat and blaming the local, state and federal politicians who are now in power, But thats not the root cause of this tragedy.
The root cause my friends goes back to cost analysis done that said it would COST too much to update the levee.
Another cause is when we heard that Katrina was CAt 5 troops and supplies should have been staged to go in immediately to rescue people...especially sinse its a fact that the levee would not withstand Cat 3 hurricane.
Whose call would that have been to mobilise FEMA and the president of course.
But Fema director does not know his A$$ from ......... and president bush is on vacation going to fund raisers.. :down:
Lets all be reasonable here.
The scapegoat is the mayor of New Orleans
Talk radio is playing a snippet from a Barbra Bush interview... "after all these people are under privileged, so the astrodome works beautifully for them"
I guess this explains that conservative compassion the Bush family promised during Shrub's campaign.
I guess this explains that conservative compassion the Bush family promised during Shrub's campaign.
SegmentKing
Veteran
No, I do blame the mayor and the emergency service set-up (or lack thereof) in New Orleans.
Again, if Monroe County Florida flinches the moment a hurricane even LOOKS like its headed our direction, they do evacuations, they don't wait till the storm is heading straight for the Florida Keys.
I blame EVERY LIFE LOST on the lack of planning of the politicians in Louisiana and I blame the Federal Government for not having enough oversite in areas that *can* be devastated due to hurricanes.
Again, COMMON SENSE. You live 5 feet below sea level and a Category 4 or 5 storm is coming your way... what do you do??
Then again, what do I know.. I've only been thru 3 hurricanes.
Again, if Monroe County Florida flinches the moment a hurricane even LOOKS like its headed our direction, they do evacuations, they don't wait till the storm is heading straight for the Florida Keys.
I blame EVERY LIFE LOST on the lack of planning of the politicians in Louisiana and I blame the Federal Government for not having enough oversite in areas that *can* be devastated due to hurricanes.
Again, COMMON SENSE. You live 5 feet below sea level and a Category 4 or 5 storm is coming your way... what do you do??
Then again, what do I know.. I've only been thru 3 hurricanes.
Jssup -
You talk about the ability of the area that you live in to evac everyone, which is great, but I would ask you: How many low income residents are in your area compared to NO? How many hospitals, nursing homes? How many elderly and poor that have no means of getting out? How does the area that you live in handle the movement of those people? (just curious)
I agree with Pitbull and the like that a lot of blame needs to go back to the local level and then all they way up the food chain to President Bush. One of the most heart wrenching pictures I have seen is the 200+ school busses that are sitting in a parking lot, buried under water, and knowing that there was never an attempt to use those busses to move anyone that could not move themselves. If you were the mayor of a city like NO and you knew that a good portion of your population were poor and elderly, why would you not have something in your diseaster plan to assist those people? Why would you not have a formal diseaster plan to cover all possibilites and provide for your police, fire, hospitals, etc? Part of that plan would involve what to do with the poor and elderly that could not provide for themselves. Why didn't the governor contact the great folks in the state of TX prior to the diseaster and seek shelter for these people before the storm? Why couldn't they have been evacuated to areas on Fri or Sat? If we knew that storm would impact NO at least 3 days out, or more, their should have been time to make preparations.
Moving up the food chain - there is plenty of blame to be shared by everyone. Those poor people endured so much and for no good reason. The airport in NO was open on Tuesday, why did it take unitl Friday for there to be any call for relief flights?
One last thing......The public figures such as the Rev Jackson and Al Sharpton......shame on them. Turning what is a true diseaster into a race issue is inexcusable. In a diseaster situation there is no race, there are people with needs. These people were not segregated out and sent to the superdome because they were black, they were sent there because they had no way to get out of the city and saught shelter in the one place the mayor designated as a last minute shelter. When people are in need, we respond as Americans.....not as White Americans or as Black Americans. I am sure there was no offical at FEMA, TSA, Red Cross or any other governement/public office that responded differently to this situation just based on the color of someones skin. Playing the race card in a situation like this is uncalled for!
You talk about the ability of the area that you live in to evac everyone, which is great, but I would ask you: How many low income residents are in your area compared to NO? How many hospitals, nursing homes? How many elderly and poor that have no means of getting out? How does the area that you live in handle the movement of those people? (just curious)
I agree with Pitbull and the like that a lot of blame needs to go back to the local level and then all they way up the food chain to President Bush. One of the most heart wrenching pictures I have seen is the 200+ school busses that are sitting in a parking lot, buried under water, and knowing that there was never an attempt to use those busses to move anyone that could not move themselves. If you were the mayor of a city like NO and you knew that a good portion of your population were poor and elderly, why would you not have something in your diseaster plan to assist those people? Why would you not have a formal diseaster plan to cover all possibilites and provide for your police, fire, hospitals, etc? Part of that plan would involve what to do with the poor and elderly that could not provide for themselves. Why didn't the governor contact the great folks in the state of TX prior to the diseaster and seek shelter for these people before the storm? Why couldn't they have been evacuated to areas on Fri or Sat? If we knew that storm would impact NO at least 3 days out, or more, their should have been time to make preparations.
Moving up the food chain - there is plenty of blame to be shared by everyone. Those poor people endured so much and for no good reason. The airport in NO was open on Tuesday, why did it take unitl Friday for there to be any call for relief flights?
One last thing......The public figures such as the Rev Jackson and Al Sharpton......shame on them. Turning what is a true diseaster into a race issue is inexcusable. In a diseaster situation there is no race, there are people with needs. These people were not segregated out and sent to the superdome because they were black, they were sent there because they had no way to get out of the city and saught shelter in the one place the mayor designated as a last minute shelter. When people are in need, we respond as Americans.....not as White Americans or as Black Americans. I am sure there was no offical at FEMA, TSA, Red Cross or any other governement/public office that responded differently to this situation just based on the color of someones skin. Playing the race card in a situation like this is uncalled for!
jssup
Katrina was projected to go to texas at one time and then about 36hrs before it made a right turn towards New Orleans..
And when a storm is heading for Florida you have more than 4 days notice to leave..
it is very little one can do with 48 hrs when you can only go east or west
Katrina was projected to go to texas at one time and then about 36hrs before it made a right turn towards New Orleans..
And when a storm is heading for Florida you have more than 4 days notice to leave..
it is very little one can do with 48 hrs when you can only go east or west
SegmentKing
Veteran
We have one road and 2 airports where I live. It is a total nightmare when we do evactuate.
And to back up my statement, the fact of the matter is, if the Keys have a Hurricane Plan, why doesn't New Orleans?
When this thing started turning north on Saturday, did any of the Emergency Services personnel in New Orleans even go "ooo... we're in the cone.. maybe we should prepare just in case.." Cause if my memory serves me correctly, this thing turned north Saturday afternoon. 48 hours may not have been "enough time" but it could have been enough had a plan been in place.
And to back up my statement, the fact of the matter is, if the Keys have a Hurricane Plan, why doesn't New Orleans?
When this thing started turning north on Saturday, did any of the Emergency Services personnel in New Orleans even go "ooo... we're in the cone.. maybe we should prepare just in case.." Cause if my memory serves me correctly, this thing turned north Saturday afternoon. 48 hours may not have been "enough time" but it could have been enough had a plan been in place.
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