Fireworks and drama in manhattan...

[TWU informer]

No contract means No Work! The time to strike is NOW! Shut them down!

Not at this time, still several rounds in the fight left.

 

[High Speed Steel]

I will wait for the fat lady to sing if you don't mind.

This isn't over, the UCC said "a consensual" agreement IS REQUIRED, which I claimed all along.

TIme will tell, you can go celebrate with your sign out on the corner, I am going reserve judgement until all rounds of this fight are over.

Levine said a consensual agreement is not required. The UCC said otherwise in court today.
So put that in your fear pipe and smoke it.

I believe it was an attorney offering an opinion of his view of the UCC that said an agreement was required. Read your article again before you put on your tin foil hat and start to chant.

 

[TWU informer]

I believe it was an attorney offering an opinion of his view of the UCC that said an agreement was required. Read your article again before you put on your tin foil hat and start to chant.

Exactly

And your point?

 

[Super FLUF]

Informer, you "get it". We are only in the 3rd inning of the ball game.

We aren't the only ones that lost today's battle. At least 1 of the "me too" clauses just dropped dead.

 

[Realityck]

American Airlines wins court OK to reject pilot labor contracts

American Airlines, which recently submitted an updated proposal that revised its position on pilot furloughs and code-sharing agreements with other airlines, may reject its collective-bargaining agreements with its main pilots’ union, U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Sean Lane said this evening in a bench ruling.

The Allied Pilots Association raised three objections to the revised motion and focused its arguments at today’s hearing on certain statements made during CBA negotiations and whether they constituted a new business plan that would allow it to reopen issues otherwise settled during a three-week Section 1113 hearing held earlier this year.

The APA was the only one of nine main American Airlines unions not to reach a new pact on its CBA with the company. On Aug. 8, the APA’s membership rejected a tentative agreement with American, restarting the Section 1113 process that had been temporarily delayed while American and its unions made final efforts to reach new agreements. One week later, Judge Lane issued a 111-page decision striking down American’s proposals to reject its collective-bargaining agreements with its main pilots’ union. As LCD reported, that decision was only a temporary setback for American: It shot down all but two of the APA’s arguments against American’s proposal and provided the airline with a clear road map for resolving the outstanding issues and having its plan reconsidered in a more favorable light.

The scope of today’s hearing hinged on whether American Airlines’ current negotiations with its unions contemplating a 17% reduction in labor costs instead of the previously discussed 20% reduction constitutes a new business plan, as the Allied Pilots Association suggested, or merely ongoing discussions not yet subject to court scrutiny, as American purported.
Lawyers for American hoped, in vain, to limit today’s hearing to arguments regarding its updated furlough and codesharing plans. American removed its previous furlough extension proposal and placed limits on its codesharing plans. But the APA had other ideas. “The APA has made clear they want to turn the past six months, all of it – the three-week trial with experts and lay testimony, hundreds of pages of briefings, thousands of pages of exhibits – into a long, elaborate dress rehearsal,” said American Airlines lawyer Neal Mollen, of Paul Hastings.

Judge Lane repeatedly emphasized to APA lawyer Kathy Krieger, of James & Hoffman, that he would not allow a rehash of arguments made during the three-week hearing

But Krieger attempted to show that American had introduced a new, updated business plan, which would allow the APA to reopen negotiations on cuts to labor costs for the pilots. Called to court for witness testimony halfway through today’s hearing, Beverly Goulet, American’s chief restructuring officer, faced a long series of questions from Krieger boiling down to whether the company’s recently revised revenue projections were the result of a lower ask from the pilots – a 17% reduction, instead of the initial 20% proposed reduction – or the other way around.

Lane concluded that discussion of the 17% figure at this point currently falls “clearly” outside of the bankruptcy court’s purview, because the number was brought up only in out-of-court settlement negotiations, not as part of the judicial process. – John Bringardner

 

[amtide]

And so now we all see where the consensual deal requirement comes from.

The locals President told us the truth. Pilots will get a better offer. UCC have the key, not AA.

In spite of what the TWU told us all.

So the TWU told the truth all along about Section 1113 bankruptcy and the requirements for abrogation as explained by Sharon Levine. I'm sorry for the pilots but we told you Informer this would happen as it has, same thing could've happened to the TWU....Believe us now Informer?

HSS looks like you have not understand. UCC will force AA to offer a better deal to the Pilots. They might have though terms imposed for a while but not for long. Time will tell.

 

[Mach85ER]

I'm sure we are going to get the "bad doggy" treatment for as long as Management thinks they can get away with it.

It will be like those phsycology experiments where three people can hit the subject shock button knowing the subject can't see them and only 1 of the three is actually sending the shock.

They will be mashing their shock buttons every chance they get.

 

[amtide]

We M&R make a poor decision accepting the T/A. TWU was not honest, we must get rid of them. I voted NO, what takes for the AMT's to realize that we need to change the union? AMFA now

 

[Overspeed]

And so now we all see where the consensual deal requirement comes from.

In spite of what the TWU told us all.

They still gave up the equity share they were going to get under the TA.

It's a lose and even though the UCC is insisting on a deal they don't say what kind of deal. They have already stated they will NOT support any deal that increases costs above the deals made so far. Regardless of what the APA says, AA management cannot agree to any increases without approval from the creditors committee. Any increase in value to the APA would drive an equal increase in costs from all other groups who have voted in TAs. The APA lost today and no spin changes that.

"However, the Committee's support will continue only to the extent that consensual agreements are reached promptly. The Committee will not support equity stakes or claims for any labor organization that does not ratify a collective bargaining agreement nor will the Committee support any further economic value to labor organizations beyond the current proposals."

 

[TWU informer]

Informer, you "get it". We are only in the 3rd inning of the ball game.

We aren't the only ones that lost today's battle. At least 1 of the "me too" clauses just dropped dead.

I understand the process and the long battle that this process is.
However, my leaders and co-workers tapped out before someone even got a bloddy lip.

APA might have endure short term hardship, but eventually the game gets moved to another venue before the end of the game gets close, unless you tap out like the other unions have done.

I thank you guys for having the courage to stand up against what was far reaching and so far above and beyond what is required to compete that it is horrible and evil.

Good luck in the next inning or round!

Explain the "me too" dropped comment, that part I have missed?

 

[AANOTOK]

HSS looks like you have not understand. UCC will force AA to offer a better deal to the Pilots. They might have though terms imposed for a while but not for long. Time will tell.

• Our goal remains to reach a consensual deal with our pilots. But history has shown that negotiations can be a lengthy process, and in the meantime, we need to implement changes to our pilot agreement that will provide the relief we need now so that we can move toward successfully exiting restructuring.

Not what it sounds like to me!

 

[TWU informer]

They still gave up the equity share they were going to get under the TA.

It's a lose and even though the UCC is insisting on a deal they don't say what kind of deal. They have already stated they will NOT support any deal that increases costs above the deals made so far. Regardless of what the APA says, AA management cannot agree to any increases without approval from the creditors committee. Any increase in value to the APA would drive an equal increase in costs from all other groups who have voted in TAs. The APA lost today and no spin changes that.

"However, the Committee's support will continue only to the extent that consensual agreements are reached promptly. The Committee will not support equity stakes or claims for any labor organization that does not ratify a collective bargaining agreement nor will the Committee support any further economic value to labor organizations beyond the current proposals."

No wonder AA loves the TWU.
This mentality and thought process is as defeatist as it gets.

Negotiations will resume, and those items will still be on the table.

 

[High Speed Steel]

• Our goal remains to reach a consensual deal with our pilots. But history has shown that negotiations can be a lengthy process, and in the meantime, we need to implement changes to our pilot agreement that will provide the relief we need now so that we can move toward successfully exiting restructuring.

Not what it sounds like to me!

Doesn't appear by this statement that a contract is required to exit bankruptcy. Judge Lane today seemed firm upon his decision that his court was not required to re-visit any arguments put before the court other than the abrogation issue. Seems the terms will be imposed by the company and negotiation will not begin until the bankruptcy is over and the parties agree to meet. When that will be, who knows...

 

[eolesen]

I understand the process and the long battle that this process is.
However, my leaders and co-workers tapped out before someone even got a bloddy lip.

To be fair, has anyone thought about just how much in legal fees TWU and APFA are avoiding by having agreed to the LBO's?

Fact is, someone has to pay for the fight, Dave, and there's a limit to what the estate has to reimburse.

At some point, the war chest runs out, and I don't see any of the other unions stepping up to the plate to kick in a few bucks.

 

[odie01]

To be fair, has anyone thought about just how much in legal fees TWU and APFA are avoiding by having agreed to the LBO's?

Fact is, someone has to pay for the fight, Dave, and there's a limit to what the estate has to reimburse.

At some point, the war chest runs out, and I don't see any of the other unions stepping up to the plate to kick in a few bucks.

I was under the impression that the twu's legal fee's were paid for, or reimbursed, by AA. Kinda like that pre-paid legal plan that was payrole deducted a few years ago......I'm hearing 5-7 mil