Only 2200 are eligible in STL to take leaves. It is highly unlikely that there will be enough to take care of the 970 dedicated employees that will soon be out of work.
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Ok Now this is war. TWA U had ALL better look for a new job, because once you are integrated with us at AA and working on the line your lives are going to be hell. Just ask the scabs of 1993 at AA. You guys keep trying to push the limits and you have pushed too far. Good Luck especially when u begin working trips with us at AA. [:devil:] [:devil:]
All I know is 833 are on furlough, volontary flurlough or leaves. That doesn't equal 1/2 of the former TW people. You want to believe 970 more will be laid off. Fine be my guest. But wait until we know how many, if any, will be laid off. Before you all continue your media grandstanding.
We have no idea what, if any, the furlough numbers will be. The eloquent Ms. Cooper was simply jumping the gun. It makes her cause seem more significant to say 1/2 the TWA flight attendant group is on layoff. Truth is, there are still over 3000 active flight attendants for now, so to say half your work force is on furlough is simply wrong. There is a difference between a furlough and a furlough notice.
Gee, I just don't think I can sleep tonight without first thanking you for your warm welcome.[:bigsmile:]
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On 8/27/2002 10:55:26 PM
Onceoza,
You are not getting the BIG picture. The Overage Leaves will come from the ENTIRE system. Then they redo the system of flying for ALL bases. After all is said and done, many bases will be flying routes they weren't flying before or will be flying less. The first time this happened, YES the STL base was on their own because they were LLC. NOW we are all one on October 1st, so things will be different. If you don't understand keep asking questions. I'm VERY patient.[]
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I'm afraid you're the one missing the big picture. Overage leaves are offered by base, not by system seniority. Since you can't fly our equipment and we can't fly yours without being trained, leaves taken by AA people at other bases will not mitigate our furlough numbers.
My guess is the total number of actual furloughs at STL will be 500-600, which when added to the 833 already furloughed comes to around 1400, which is about 33% of our original workforce.
It didn't have to happen this way. The original plan was to replace TWA's 767-300's from STL to OGG, HNL and LGW with AA metal and train us to fly them, reducing our furlough numbers by about 220. APFA refuses to allow it to happen, citing the contract which says all openings in a new base have to be offered to the entire system. Since an agreement wasn't reached, an additional 220 of us will hit the street.
This backfires in your own faces, too. Hundreds of AA FA's will want leaves and be unable to get them. Hundreds of us will want to work and get the ax instead. If an agreement could be reached, both sides would benefit.
MK
Kirkpatrick,
From everything I've heard and read, AA is not planning on furloughing (if there is anybody to furlough) everyone at the same time. This will take place between October 13th and sometime in March. The goal is to train as many of you LLCer's on AA metal as fast as possible. This gives AA at least six months to train enough of you to cover the AA flying in STL.
Kirkpatrick has hit the nail on the head. OVl's offered at other AA bases will not help mitigate furloughs at STL. Anyone recieving a notice of furlough is, by contract, ineligable to proffer for any form of job protection. So now, the available pool of F/A able to proffer for OVL or Partnership Flying is only 2200 out of 3200 or so. One can extrapolate from prior OVL offerings and estimate the effect this will have with the ultimate furlough numbers. With this in mind, it is unfortunate indeed, that the APFA could not protect another 220+ jobs at STL by allowing a proffer for ISL training. BTW, these ISL flights, now to be staffed from ORD and DFW will have no net affect on employment on the AA side other than to improve bid packages. On the other hand, allowing this proffer for ISL training had the potential to keep 220+ STL APFA members working. 220 people who will now be unable to bring home a paycheck!!!
It boggles the mind.
It boggles the mind.
[/quote]
Kirkpatrick,
From everything I've heard and read, AA is not planning on furloughing (if there is anybody to furlough) everyone at the same time. This will take place between October 13th and sometime in March. The goal is to train as many of you LLCer's on AA metal as fast as possible. This gives AA at least six months to train enough of you to cover the AA flying in STL.
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[/quote]
That's not what we've been told. No aircraft conversion or training until Spring of next year.
[:knockout:]
Kirkpatrick,
From everything I've heard and read, AA is not planning on furloughing (if there is anybody to furlough) everyone at the same time. This will take place between October 13th and sometime in March. The goal is to train as many of you LLCer's on AA metal as fast as possible. This gives AA at least six months to train enough of you to cover the AA flying in STL.
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[/quote]
That's not what we've been told. No aircraft conversion or training until Spring of next year.
[:knockout:]
We should be working to keep as many people who want to work, working as possible. That means keeping ISL open as its staffed. Terminating all those on the list of dues arrers. No more free ride. Putting pressure on AA to limit its use of FN's and, work to end that agreement or limit it to no more than the original 331.
If APFA is not doing absolutly everything to keep every member on property as it can. Then some explaining and some new management is in order.
FYI, having dallas and Chicago flying the ISL trips does not improve there bid sheets. They hate 6 day trips. When IDF flew the 6 day CDG for JFK. There was nothing but whining.
If APFA is not doing absolutly everything to keep every member on property as it can. Then some explaining and some new management is in order.
FYI, having dallas and Chicago flying the ISL trips does not improve there bid sheets. They hate 6 day trips. When IDF flew the 6 day CDG for JFK. There was nothing but whining.
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On 8/27/2002 10:46:43 PM
Ok Now this is war. TWA U had ALL better look for a new job, because once you are integrated with us at AA and working on the line your lives are going to be hell. Just ask the scabs of 1993 at AA. You guys keep trying to push the limits and you have pushed too far. Good Luck especially when u begin working trips with us at AA.
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Be afraid! Be very afraid!
On 8/27/2002 10:46:43 PM
Ok Now this is war. TWA U had ALL better look for a new job, because once you are integrated with us at AA and working on the line your lives are going to be hell. Just ask the scabs of 1993 at AA. You guys keep trying to push the limits and you have pushed too far. Good Luck especially when u begin working trips with us at AA.
----------------
Be afraid! Be very afraid!
Here is a copy of the HI6:
VM*/M0220336«
O2H QFL 7B3138
23AUG02/1448
TO: ALL STL/ISL FLIGHT ATTENDANTS
RE: INTEGRATION TRAINING INFORMATION
.
THE INTEGRATION TRAINING CLASS WHICH BEGINS SEPTEMBER 3,2002,
IS A DOMESTIC TRAINING CLASS. UPON COMPLETION OF
TRAINING, FLIGHT ATTENDANTS WILL FLY A DOMESTIC AVAILABILITY
SCHEDULE FOR THE REMAINDER OF SEPTEMBER. STARTING IN
OCTOBER A SEPARATE STL-AA BIDSHEET WILL BE PRODUCED. WE
EXPECT TO SEE 2-DAY S80 TRIP PAIRINGS AND ABOUT 5 PAIRINGS
FOR THE MONTH.
.
AT THIS TIME WE DO NOT ANTICIPATE ADDITIONAL INTEGRATION
TRAINING CLASSES UNTIL TWA AIRCRAFT HAVE BEEN CONVERTED TO
AA METAL IN EARLY SPRING NEXT YEAR.
.
DONNA SNEPP MANAGING DIRECTOR, FLIGHT SERVICE 23AUG02
VM*/M0220336«
O2H QFL 7B3138
23AUG02/1448
TO: ALL STL/ISL FLIGHT ATTENDANTS
RE: INTEGRATION TRAINING INFORMATION
.
THE INTEGRATION TRAINING CLASS WHICH BEGINS SEPTEMBER 3,2002,
IS A DOMESTIC TRAINING CLASS. UPON COMPLETION OF
TRAINING, FLIGHT ATTENDANTS WILL FLY A DOMESTIC AVAILABILITY
SCHEDULE FOR THE REMAINDER OF SEPTEMBER. STARTING IN
OCTOBER A SEPARATE STL-AA BIDSHEET WILL BE PRODUCED. WE
EXPECT TO SEE 2-DAY S80 TRIP PAIRINGS AND ABOUT 5 PAIRINGS
FOR THE MONTH.
.
AT THIS TIME WE DO NOT ANTICIPATE ADDITIONAL INTEGRATION
TRAINING CLASSES UNTIL TWA AIRCRAFT HAVE BEEN CONVERTED TO
AA METAL IN EARLY SPRING NEXT YEAR.
.
DONNA SNEPP MANAGING DIRECTOR, FLIGHT SERVICE 23AUG02
Since when? We were told that the first proffer for transitional training is for September first. This is why the seniority lists will become one on October first instead of December 31st. If what you are saying is true, then AA would have to furlough one group only to turn around six weeks later and bring them back just to furlough another group. Doesn't make sense what so ever. Can I ask where your information is coming from? APFA? AA? IAM? Rumor? Just curious.
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