From a TWA F/A....Where is the Hypocrisy?

[FA Mikey]

AA received a 'share" for TWA too. Bottom line, recalls = current f/as getting off reserve, less reassignments, and a few people happy to have the chance to finish out their careers with a little something to show for their efforts. Not so hard to understand.

I am 100% for unlimited recall for all FA's. I have a feeling coming back might be a bit like, what the returning mothers felt on there return in the 70's. Something very different than what you remember.

 

[Hunter]

AA received a 'share" for TWA too. Bottom line, recalls = current f/as getting off reserve, less reassignments, and a few people happy to have the chance to finish out their careers with a little something to show for their efforts. Not so hard to understand.

It's not as if this is a seniority issue. The former TWA flight attendants would be returning under the terms of the Seniority Integration Agreement between APFA and AA that stapled them to the bottom of the seniority list.

What the former TWA flight attendants are asking for is the OPPORTUNITY to return as vacancies occur. No added expenses. No special treatment. No job guarantees. Just a chance to resume their careers, when AA needs the additional manpower. How could any reasonable person consider this anything other than fair?

If as AA claims, the furlough of the former TWA flight attendants was a result of 9-11 and because AA accepted over $500 million is direct cash aide, some of that figure attributable to TWA's ASM's, to compensate it for losses that were a consequence of 9-11, isn't it a reasonable expectation that AA would have a moral duty to compensate the former TWA flight attendants whose careers were causalities of 9-11, with the extension of recall rights? To me, it really seems like a matter of doing the right thing.

Whew! A long and wordy paragraph, but an argument that at least deserves consideration. What I find so interesting is that everyone is quick to say that it would cost AA more to recall these flight attendants because they are top of the pay scale. That is simply not true as they will be recalled, primarily, to replace retiring flight attendants who are at the top of the pay scale as well. There would be no additional cost. It would be a wash.

Undoubtedly, there will be some who will say that AA can lower their costs by not extending recall right for these former TWA flight attendants and hiring off the street once they have all dropped off the recall list. To that I would reply, it would be a pretty despicable thing, even by APFA and AA standards, to further victimize the former TWA flight attendants and finish what the terrorists set out to do, kill and disrupt the lives of as many Americans as possible, in the interest of lowering costs.

Just some food for thought from a perspective you may not have considered.


Hunter

 

[jimntx]

Unfortunately, Hunter, if there is any truth to the galley gossip, that is exactly what is in the works. I keep hearing from other f/as that "a friend of mine in training" (or a friend of mine has a friend who knows someone in training. You know the drill.) "told me that they are gearing up now for lots of new hire classes starting in July, 2008." I don't know anyone in training so I can't say one way or the other.

I would not put it past them, though. Evidently bad PR is not an issue for AMR. I can't imagine the bad feelings that such actions would cause.

I was, and still am, in favor of unlimited recall rights. It costs the company exactly nothing, and as has been pointed out, does not affect the precious seniority of the "nAAtives" one iota. I think that would be the best to hope for. Actually, I am for proportional seniority awards--if you are in the top 10% of the separate lists, you would be in the top 10% of the merged lists. I doubt seriously that most flight attendants would notice a bit of difference in their bidding each month. Lord knows, it couldn't get any worse than it is now.

 

[FA Mikey]

I laugh at anyone trying to push that dribble in front of me. What a load of crap. Its a wash replacing a retiring fa with a extwa fa. The idea that somehow our company has kept us short and held up any growth only to keep a couple thousand extwa fa's out is ridiculous.

On top of all that getting more of the people like the last groups to go through training. The attitude and the laziness, is too much to take. I would rather have the mature, tried and tested, with the old fashioned work ethic.

 

[aafsc]

July 2008 is still a year and a half away and a year and a half is an eternity in this industry; so many things are possible between now and then. There could be further downsizing or a merger which would prevent recalls or at worst make more layoffs necessary. On the other hand, the attrition rate could increase substantially or profitable market opportunities could present themselves to AA in which case they could decide to increase capacity making recalls necessary. It seems highly unlikely to me that the training department would gear up a full year and a half prior to hiring.

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

You know what I think? I think the APFA doesn't want to have its membership shown up by the former TWA flight attendants.

How you ask? A little thing called customer service.


Disgraceful conduct by a "Union",pretending 4200 members aren't furloughed and not lifting a finger to prevent their recall rights from expiring.

Somewhere pieces of Jimmy Hoffa are spinning...

 

[kirkpatrick]

I have a feeling coming back might be a bit like, what the returning mothers felt on there return in the 70's. Something very different than what you remember.

I think I have a pretty good idea. If I'm lucky, I'll be working a liquor cart on a MIA turn. But believe it or not, that will work fine for me.

MK

 

[nbmcg01]

I laugh at anyone trying to push that dribble in front of me. What a load of crap. Its a wash replacing a retiring fa with a extwa fa. The idea that somehow our company has kept us short and held up any growth only to keep a couple thousand extwa fa's out is ridiculous.

On top of all that getting more of the people like the last groups to go through training. The attitude and the laziness, is too much to take. I would rather have the mature, tried and tested, with the old fashioned work ethic.

What I don't understand is why you all aren't shouting from the rooftops about the $600,000,000 (from the furloughed AA f/as) in addition to the $340,000,000(from the active f/as) (both are VERY conservative estmates)the combined "shared sacrifice" given by the f/a work force. This should be addressed at every town meeting and/or management/union road show. Unless you all start becoming more vocal and proactive, tghe next round of negotiations will be a breeze (for the Company).

 

[Bob Owens]

A laid off TWA flight attendant who wishes to continue in the aviation
industry will generally begin at approximately $ 17 per hour, on reserve. An
AA international purser at the top of the Pascale and with added job
descriptions earns about $ 51 per hour. Three times more than the other
member of the working family. It is hilarious to hear all these groups whine
while earning two to three times more.

Well actually the ones doing the whining on behalf of the "proletatiat" are earning much more than that. They sit back and talk about the injustice but then do everything in their power to make sure that nothing is done about it.

 

[2clippedwings]

I am 100% for unlimited recall for all FA's. I have a feeling coming back might be a bit like, what the returning mothers felt on there return in the 70's. Something very different than what you remember.

When I was furloughed from TWA we had a 3 year recall limit. It was changed to 5 years and when that 5 years was up they opened their pay-for-training and we watched from the sidelines after falling off of the seniority list. Never could figure out the logic behind denying unlimited recall.
Now I'm long time furloughed elsewhere but have unlimited recall rights, thank goodness.
With the industry as unpredictable as it is and always has been, unlimited recall rights should be in place across the board.
Just MY opinion.

 

[aafsc]

When I was furloughed from TWA we had a 3 year recall limit. It was changed to 5 years and when that 5 years was up they opened their pay-for-training and we watched from the sidelines after falling off of the seniority list. Never could figure out the logic behind denying unlimited recall.
Now I'm long time furloughed elsewhere but have unlimited recall rights, thank goodness.
With the industry as unpredictable as it is and always has been, unlimited recall rights should be in place across the board.
Just MY opinion.

Wow! That utopia known as twa at one time only had a 3 year F/A recall limit! Say it ain't so!

 

[nbmcg01]

Wow! That utopia known as twa at one time only had a 3 year F/A recall limit! Say it ain't so!

Decades ago. At the time of the acquisition it was 7 years. The first furloughed after 9-11 were still under our IFFA negotiated contract and had a 7 years recall. They were never given "notice" that their recall rights had been lowered. Sounds like there should have been a substantial grievance filed. It is pretty hard to get information from the APFA on the status of grievances.

7 years and no foreign nationals since 1976...things that make US go hummmm

 

[kirkpatrick]

Wow! That utopia known as twa at one time only had a 3 year F/A recall limit! Say it ain't so!

I don't know when, if ever, the recall limit was three years at TWA. I started in 1972 and it was five years then.

TWA hired some classes in 1979, telling them they would almost certainly be furloughed in the fall. Then the downsizing began and many of them were never recalled, falling off the list in 1984. In 1985 TWA hired once again, giving priority to those who had fallen off the list the previous year. Since they were at the bottom of the seniority list in both pay and bidding seniority, they really didn't lose too much.

It was the contract ratified in 1983 that increased recall rights to seven years. That was considered the industry leading contract at the time, and was the last good contract we had. It's been downhill ever since.

MK

 

[nbmcg01]

I don't know when, if ever, the recall limit was three years at TWA. I started in 1972 and it was five years then.

TWA hired some classes in 1979, telling them they would almost certainly be furloughed in the fall. Then the downsizing began and many of them were never recalled, falling off the list in 1984. In 1985 TWA hired once again, giving priority to those who had fallen off the list the previous year. Since they were at the bottom of the seniority list in both pay and bidding seniority, they really didn't lose too much.

It was the contract ratified in 1983 that increased recall rights to seven years. That was considered the industry leading contract at the time, and was the last good contract we had. It's been downhill ever since.

MK




Mark and I will have to disagree on part of this post. We had great work rules, negotiated in the '90s that help offset our pay "contributions". Our union leadership looked for ways to help us with quality of life provisions. That is why even with the pay raise from AA, we worked more days for less money. It is ALL about the work rules. That and the loss of 14% 401k contributions, free medical, no amt. added to income for the use of passes. (we fought that with IRS and won) I know because after the fight I had line item audits for 3 years because at that time I was considered a tax protester for wanting to protect employee "perks".

 

[jimntx]

Sounds like there should have been a substantial grievance filed. It is pretty hard to get information from the APFA on the status of grievances.

Grievances? Against the current APFA administration? Surely, you jest. Aside from the fact that everyone is ecstatically happy with the current administration, the few grievances that have been filed by those ever-present malcontents have been deemed to have no merit, not timely, and/or without basis in fact.

The fact that the people being grieved against are the ones who have reached this finding is purely coincidental.

(It still confuses me how anyone could read the drivel put out by our union and wonder why I refer to the current administration as the Blessed Order of the Perpetually Trip-Removed. The only thing I am sure that the BOPTR does for me is prevent me from spending an additional $41/mo of my pay.)

If you are reading this and you are an STL/SLT f/a, vote for Dixie Daniels and Tim Hunter for Base Chair and Vice-Chair.