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Gas Prices!

Agreed that given the cost of living it appears a bargain for us. How ever, could the same not be said of our medical system? With the exception of the very rich or those who are fortunate enough to have health care coverage, basic medical care, much less major surgery is out of reach of the average american.

The basic point I was attempting to make is that the argument that was made above about some one living in Germany wanting our system rather than their own usually falls apart once they see the bill. When they realize that in order to get the liver/kidney/heart transplant or other major surgery that they will literally have to sell everything that they own, place them selves into debt to the tune of several hundred thousands of dollars just to live a healthy life so that they may work them selves to death trying to pay it off or more likely, file bankruptcy and stick it to the health care industry. That hardly seems like an efficient system to me.

I would far rather pay higher taxes up front (assuming the taxes actually went into health care, road repair, public transportation ... etc) than have to worry about whether or not I get ill and will be able to afford to get healthy. My mother received some of the best health care I have ever seen for a price that a US hospital would not even let you in the front door for.

IMO, it's a matter of looking forward decades verses looking to tomorrow. Having low fuel cost may seem like a good idea for the here and now but it does nothing to motivate us to find a cure for our addiction and move on to the next step. China is awakening. Their need for resources will out strip ours. They own such a huge part of our debit that is frightening. The more folks who need a single resource mean the price of that resource will increase. Better to find an alternative now than scramble for one when it is too late.
 
I'm STILL trying to understand WHY, the LITTLE TURD in the WH, (and the BRUTAL political party he belongs to), give the GIANT oil companies GIANT $$$ tax breaks,while "we' continue to "take it in the shorts" as the prices go HIGHER/DEEPER ???????? :shock: :shock: :shock:

Could it be, that the top 1% of people in the "good ol' usa" DON'T GIVE A #### HOW MUCH GAS COSTS ??????????????

NH/BB's
 
I wasn't aware that everybody felt the same way you did. People in Europe lead completely different lifestyles than Americans as far as driving goes. That $8.00 per gallon gas helps pay for their socialist governments. That along with the steep income tax imposed on the few that actually work. Hey, given the choice - I'll stick with what we have over here. :up:
I assume your are not a (socialist) union member then, nor planning on SOCIAL Security or FDIC for your savings insurance etc. etc.?

Capitalism and market rate for the working classes, the upper .1% get to live the socialist gov. protected lifestyle. Would'nt irritate me as much if they upper classes shared in the burden of imperialist wars that the neo-cons are wanting to wage, sort of like the British used to send at least their family black sheep into the military. You know sort of like when the "flower" of british upper classes died on the fields of Flanders.
 
Agreed that given the cost of living it appears a bargain for us. How ever, could the same not be said of our medical system? With the exception of the very rich or those who are fortunate enough to have health care coverage, basic medical care, much less major surgery is out of reach of the average american.

The basic point I was attempting to make is that the argument that was made above about some one living in Germany wanting our system rather than their own usually falls apart once they see the bill. When they realize that in order to get the liver/kidney/heart transplant or other major surgery that they will literally have to sell everything that they own, place them selves into debt to the tune of several hundred thousands of dollars just to live a healthy life so that they may work them selves to death trying to pay it off or more likely, file bankruptcy and stick it to the health care industry. That hardly seems like an efficient system to me.

I would far rather pay higher taxes up front (assuming the taxes actually went into health care, road repair, public transportation ... etc) than have to worry about whether or not I get ill and will be able to afford to get healthy. My mother received some of the best health care I have ever seen for a price that a US hospital would not even let you in the front door for.

IMO, it's a matter of looking forward decades verses looking to tomorrow. Having low fuel cost may seem like a good idea for the here and now but it does nothing to motivate us to find a cure for our addiction and move on to the next step. China is awakening. Their need for resources will out strip ours. They own such a huge part of our debit that is frightening. The more folks who need a single resource mean the price of that resource will increase. Better to find an alternative now than scramble for one when it is too late.


Hey Garf, if you hate America so much - why don't you move to one of your ideal countries that offers high taxes and low cost medical care. It might give you a renewed appreciation for what you've already got here now.

The oil is out there and available. There is no way that man is even close to depleting all the oil on this planet.
By the way, I don't drive a large vehicle either. It would be nice to know that if I wanted to, that I wouldn't have to stess out about the high cost of fuel. 😉
 
Hey Garf, if you hate America so much -
Perhaps I missed it, but I don't see where Garfield said he "hates" America.

I thought he was suggesting that perhaps there are things that can be improved.

I know that is tough for the "America is perfect and nothing can or should be changed and if you suggest otherwise you are a traitor and aiding & abetting the enemy" crowd to digest. But in reality, the world really isn't a black / white "you're either for us or against us" kind of place. There are shades of gray all over, should you care to look or understand the big issues before us these days.

You should get out more instead of just unquestioningly swallowing what the conservative media elite keeps peddling.
 
Perhaps I missed it, but I don't see where Garfield said he "hates" America.

I thought he was suggesting that perhaps there are things that can be improved.

I know that is tough for the "America is perfect and nothing can or should be changed and if you suggest otherwise you are a traitor and aiding & abetting the enemy" crowd to digest. But in reality, the world really isn't a black / white "you're either for us or against us" kind of place. There are shades of gray all over, should you care to look or understand the big issues before us these days.

You should get out more instead of just unquestioningly swallowing what the conservative media elite keeps peddling.


Bear,

It is easier for him to hurl insults than to actually come up with a logical argument of why we should allow our selves to be dependent on foreign nations to supply us with oil. I have yet to hear an argument as to why we should have ‘cheap’ fuel. Seems like a security issue as far as I am concerned when this country can be shut down when a few oil refineries go off line. Can you imagine what would happen if the middle east found another country to buy their oil. A country that has maybe one quarter of the world population that has one of the fasted growing GDP’s around right now, one that is hungry for any and all the petroleum it can get it’s hands on. Good thing a country like that does not exist huh? By the way, I sure hope that country does not own a sizable amount of our debt and decides to call in the marker. OH geez. What do you know, that country does exist.

Unfortunately, there are those who are short sighted and greedy who do not care about the future of this country or where the world is headed. As long as they can get a cheap tank of fuel they are happy. Never mind that it is polluting the atmosphere and we are dependent on countries who hate us.
 
Terms like Market Rate only apply when it comes to wanting someone else's higher pay and benefits..

Fact is that there are a lot of people willing to pay $75 for oil on the world market, and the cost of producing that oil is pretty damn expensive thanks to the Barbara Boxer/John Kerry voting tree hugger types who complain loudly about tbe price of fuel, but also make it next to impossible to consider drilling for the oil reserves within our own borders lest we disturb a caribu or upset a seagull, let alone provide any form of incentive to build new refinery capacity on the mainland.

When you put legislative roadblocks to be put in place which do nothing but prevent competition, don't be so damned upset when the companies who play by the rules actually make money off the deal...
 
The August 2006 edition of Popular Mechanics has a interesting article of how to make a 100 mpg hybrid car. Combining a clean-diesel engine with an electric motor, whose battery is a plug-in type and also charged by regenertive braking on all four wheels, will put you in the 75 mpg area. The rest could come from weight savings such as composite material. Of course the big three claim it would cost $200,000 a car to build, what a crock.

BTW...Article is not on the web yet.
 
Bear,

It is easier for him to hurl insults than to actually come up with a logical argument of why we should allow our selves to be dependent on foreign nations to supply us with oil. I have yet to hear an argument as to why we should have ‘cheap’ fuel. Seems like a security issue as far as I am concerned when this country can be shut down when a few oil refineries go off line. Can you imagine what would happen if the middle east found another country to buy their oil. A country that has maybe one quarter of the world population that has one of the fasted growing GDP’s around right now, one that is hungry for any and all the petroleum it can get it’s hands on. Good thing a country like that does not exist huh? By the way, I sure hope that country does not own a sizable amount of our debt and decides to call in the marker. OH geez. What do you know, that country does exist.

Unfortunately, there are those who are short sighted and greedy who do not care about the future of this country or where the world is headed. As long as they can get a cheap tank of fuel they are happy. Never mind that it is polluting the atmosphere and we are dependent on countries who hate us.


Talk about throwing backhanded insults. Shortsighted, Greedy, c'mon now - ouch. China is on the brink of a some sort of civil unrest as it is - from what I read about it - it has already started. You want solutions of how to become less dependant on those infidel hating countries; well, I would say the government needs to ease restictions on oil exploration and drilling. Also, the technology does; in fact, exist to increase the efficiency of the internal combustion engine. Now try to figure out who is holding back on the developement and implementation of this technology. There are a lot of people whose livlihoods are very closely tied to the cost of gas here in America. There are those that feel those America hating countries could price there product too high and actually lose business. Further, it would cause a push for new technologies that do not require oil products to run on. If you want to talk polution, now you can look at some of these third world type countries. At least in America there is some restrictions on output to the atmoshere. By the way I do get out of the country often, so I'm no homer.
Bottom line is there is no easy answer. This really isn't the forum for this topic anyway. We could go on adnauseam on this issue I'm sure. Might I recomend a book for you, it's called "State of Fear". You will find it interesting.
 
S is for Science
F is for Fiction.

Unless of cource you add bibliography.
 
"At least in America there is some restrictions on output to the atmoshere"

Really? Clearly not enough. The USA pumps out 25% of the Worlds total greenhouse gases and GWB is not really prepared to do do too much in reducing the country's output. i.e. the Kyoto protocol....
 
Talk about throwing backhanded insults. Shortsighted, Greedy, c'mon now - ouch. China is on the brink of a some sort of civil unrest as it is - from what I read about it - it has already started. You want solutions of how to become less dependant on those infidel hating countries; well, I would say the government needs to ease restictions on oil exploration and drilling. Also, the technology does; in fact, exist to increase the efficiency of the internal combustion engine. Now try to figure out who is holding back on the developement and implementation of this technology. There are a lot of people whose livlihoods are very closely tied to the cost of gas here in America. There are those that feel those America hating countries could price there product too high and actually lose business. Further, it would cause a push for new technologies that do not require oil products to run on. If you want to talk polution, now you can look at some of these third world type countries. At least in America there is some restrictions on output to the atmoshere. By the way I do get out of the country often, so I'm no homer.
Bottom line is there is no easy answer. This really isn't the forum for this topic anyway. We could go on adnauseam on this issue I'm sure. Might I recomend a book for you, it's called "State of Fear". You will find it interesting.

It's there. B)

"At least in America there is some restrictions on output to the atmoshere"

Really? Clearly not enough. The USA pumps out 25% of the Worlds total greenhouse gases and GWB is not really prepared to do do too much in reducing the country's output. i.e. the Kyoto protocol....

Read this:http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/editorials/article/0,2777,DRMN_23964_4763801,00.html
 
Finally, a response that did not involve an insult. Thank you.

So, we have a thread that does not involve our own little world of the airline biz. I think it’s a good thing.

The way I see it, you want access to more oil without decreasing consumption or seeking an alternative. I want less oil (no drilling in ANWAR or anywhere else for that matter.

You want more land opened up for drilling. Have you been to Alaska. I have been there twice and I shudder at the thought of another well or pipeline being built up in what is the most beautiful landscape I have ever seen.

Yes I know there are a lot of folks with their hand in the oil biz who are making money had over fist. Yes it is corrupt. If the American people ever want to take their country back, we can at any time, given the will to do so.

I do not mean this as an insult but I think people such as your self are taking the easy way out. Let’s go drill for more oil instead of driving smaller vehicles, forcing our government to invest heavily in alternative fuel programs, cutting down on emissions (who cares if the rest of the world is not doing it, that old saying “if someone else jumps off a bridge .. will you tooâ€￾ seems to apply. If we are a world leader than damn it, lets lead.

We live in a country that can be so much more than it is but we are lazy, greedy and short sighted as a nation. Yes, there are tons and tons of oil all over the place. Hell, Canada had a boat load under it’s ground in sand. At $150 a barrel it will probably be worth it to go after it. OR, we can just extract hydrogen that is in the air just floating around on its own. Why go after a resource for 100 year old technology when we have the ability to develop a engine that will produce no emissions and free us on the dependence of foreign nations. Seems like a win win to me.
 
YO Garfield(a tail of 2 kitties),

I'm SPELLBOUND !!

THAT(your last post) was SUPERB, and may I add...TRUE !!



AND "NOW" for you Mr. Former Moderaator :shock: ,

I don't disagree with you (fundamentally) over the opposition party's(democrats) fighting with DUMBYA,

"BUT",

You tell US ALL, why "the lil' TURD is giving OIL companies Massive $$$$ TAX BREAKS, while we keep "taking it in the ***" while the prices keep going up.(And "E", I don't give a CRAP, WHAT they are paying in Europe) ????????????????????????????

NH/BB's
 

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