I think the bigger issue is the stand your ground law in FL. The law is fatally flawed. If you look at section 3 of the law it essentially says that I can follow someone in a public place and if that person turns on me and I feel threatened I can can use force including deadly force to save my self. Even though I initiated the pursuit, I can still claim that I felt threatened. The fact that justifiable homicides have tripled in FL seems to have skated under the radar on this one.
I’ve never read such gross and blatantly ignorant misinterpretation of Florida’s self-defense laws in my life! Since page 1 you have highjacked this thread with your straw man scenario that resembles nothing remotely close to what Florida’s self defense laws actually say. I laughed when I read “it essentially says” and then references some obscure “section 3” (citation please) reference to back your bloated expert analysis of the Martin / Zimmerman case. You made up this story and have nothing to reference your so-called factual statements.
Before you start running your trap I suggest you study up on “
duty to retreat”.
First off, “Stand Your Ground” is totally irreverent to this case. Zimmerman exercised has right under “Fla. Stat. § 776.012. Use of force in defense of person” to use lethal force to save his life.
“A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony;
Deadly force may only be applied in situations where you feel “
imminent death or great bodily harm,” or “
the imminent commission of a forcible felony.” The law goes on to state that a person may only use deadly force if he “
reasonably believes” that the aforesaid factual conditions exist".
Just as important, notice the reference to “
duty to retreat”. These laws are the norm throughout the US and you don't have one once of proof to suggest SYG has raised the homicide rate, not one!
The reason a “full blown” investigation wasn’t started is because the police detectives had determined that Zimmerman acted in self defense. Zimmerman suffered a broken nose, his clothes had grass stains on them and he had a contusion on the back of his head with open, bleeding wounds. As more details have emerged, it appears that Zimmerman was attacked by the 6’2”, 170 lbs Martin.
SYG becomes irreverent once the first physical contact is made regardless to who the aggressor party is. Zimmerman did not have the opportunity to "retreat". Big difference in the application of the self defense laws.
I’ve taken your ignorant straw man assumptions and put them into context with what the Florida self defense laws really have to say.
“Mr. Knot lurks around the public square, spots Ms Tree and, well lurks Ms Tree until Ms Tree becomes suspicious of my lurking. Having had enough, Ms Tree swings around and says “WTF is your problem Mr. Knot, why are you lurking me?” Mr. Knot replies back in a loud and rude rant dishing out insult after insult about Ms Tree, his wife(?), and his family! Ms Tree gets nervous and feels threatened by Mr. Knot’s insults.
What does Ms Tree do? (remember, we are in public).
Ms Tree makes the right call and
retreats to a public area where he feels more secure, then
calls the police to report the suspicious activity.
In this case, Ms Tree had and took the opportunity to “retreat”.
The issue of “Retreat” under Fla. Stat. § 776.013:
“
A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony”.
Now, let’s back up a minute and change the response from Mr. Knot.
“
Ms. Tree swings around and says “WTF is your problem Mr. Knot, why are you lurking me? Mr. Knot responds by throwing a hard right punch in Ms. Tree’s nose, breaking his nose and takes him to his knees. Mr. Knot continues the assault and drags a dazed and confused Ms Tree to the sidewalk. Mr. Knot continues the assault by sitting on top of him and slamming his head repeatedly against the sidewalk".
Still conscious and fearing for his life,
what does Ms Tree do?
Ms Tree makes the right call and pulls his concealed weapon and fires a single lethal round in to Mr. Knot’s chest.
In this case, Ms Tree did not have the opportunity to “retreat” because he had been
attacked by Mr. Knot! Reference “The issue of “Retreat” under Fla. Stat. § 776.013:” The laws change when the physical assault begins no matter who the aggressor is!
It does seem clear that Zimmerman was following Martin even though 911 dispatch said not too. If I were being followed by someone at night I am not sure what I would do.
Zimmerman did not call 911. He called a non-emergency dispatcher who does not have the authority to issue a lawful command and Zimmerman was under no legal obligation to follow her order. . period. Zimmerman was asked by the dispatcher if he was following Martin, Zimmerman replied in the affirmative.Zimmerman was told by the dispatcher “you don’t need to do that” to which Zimmerman responded “OK’. Your assertion that Martin was following Zimmerman is a fabrication. The fact that you wouldn’t know what to do in a situation with similar circumstances speaks volumes about your knowledge of the law. But again, I already knew that!
Look at what Zimmerman did under the circumstances as opposed to what Martin did. Martin had every opportunity to call the police if he felt threatened just as Zimmerman did, he elected to call his girlfriend instead. You’re here to tell me Martin did all this while being hotly pursued by Zimmerman?
If you read the law, the police had no reason to arrest much less detain Zimmerman. A kid gets shot and the shooter is not even out on bail? WTF??? The law either needs to be struck down or modified. I do not see how someone can pursue an individual and then claim to be threatened by the individual.
Martin did not claim to be threatened by Zimmerman! He did not call the police to report the threat nor did he run the 100 yards to his father’s house where he would have been secure from a perceived threat,
a duty to retreat.
Since you have gone out of your way to create a scenario to fit your narrative, let me field a very possible scenario based on what has been reported.
You can be sure that law enforcement has subpoenaed the cell phone records of both Zimmerman and Martin to determine through cell tower triangulation and enabled GPS to determine their relative positions to each other.
My theory goes something like this;
Weather conditions at the time were reported as heavy rain. It is more than likely that Zimmerman spotted and observed Martin while driving his SUV through the gated community he patrolled. It is not likely that Zimmerman would be patrolling outside his vehicle in the rain. It is unclear if Zimmerman stopped his SUV to question Martin from within his SUV (not against the law and well within his legal boundaries) or if Zimmerman just observed Martin and then parked and got out of his SUV to question Martin.
Zimmerman stated that Martin’s suspicious activities included indicators that he may be under the influence of alcohol / drugs and appeared to be casing homes as he slowly walked (it has been reported that Martin had just be suspended from school due to having pot residue in a plastic baggy on school property). In light of this recent disclosure, Zimmerman observations become more relevant as he may in fact have observed Martin stoned to the bone!
At some point immediately after Martin was observed, Zimmerman got out of his SUV and attempted to approach Martin. It is unclear if Zimmerman ever had the opportunity to question Martin as it appears Martin started to run as he watched Zimmerman approach. In the non-emergency call placed by Zimmerman (now public record) he does not sound like a person trying to carry on a conversation while in hot pursuit. He is not winded and there is no indication that he was under any immediate threat of danger. Zimmerman states that he lost sight of Martin for approximately 5 minutes. As noted already, Martin was within 100 yards of his father’s house when he began to run. Why didn't he run home?
Zimmerman stated that he walked back to his SUV (distance unknown) and as he was about to enter his SUV, Martin appeared from his right rear quarter. Zimmerman states that Martin asked him if he "had a problem with him” in which Zimmerman is quoted as saying “no”. According to Zimmerman, Martin replied “well you do now” at which point Martin landed a blow to Zimmerman’s nose. This blow was hard enough to break his nose and understandable take him to his knees.
It is at this time at Zimmerman did not have the opportunity to retreat. As the police investigation indicates, it then appears Zimmerman was dragged a short distance across an area of grass (grass stains on his clothes) before being placed on his back on a sidewalk. Martin appears to have sat on top of Zimmerman and slammed his head against the sidewalk (contusions to the back of Zimmerman’s head and open wounds). There was an altercation . . . The fact that Martin's body was discovered so close to the point of the initial contact with Zimmerman suggest that Martin returned to Zimmerman's location. Why?
It was at this time that Zimmerman, dazed and confused, exercised his legal right to use lethal force in order to save his own life! Fortunately for Zimmerman he was carrying a legal concealed weapon.
The more I learn about Martin and his propensity to comment crime, the clearer the picture becomes of what Obama’s son would look like, a loser! I guess the police just acted stupidly huh Ms Tree?
Exit question. Why do you harbor such a racist attitude toward young
white Hispanic males?
