DLFlyer said: Siegel still hasn't addressed how US intends to be more effective against the low-fare carriers. Either he's too busy just trying to keep U alive or he's sticking his head in the sand, but whatever the reason he can't ignore them forever.[BR][BR]Chip comments: The company intends on ordering the EMB-170 and EMB-175 to be flown in the new mainline RJ division and as part of the POR, GECAS has reached a global settlement and will finance the order. The EMB-170 is avialable for delivery in the fourth quarter and has 2x2 seating, a large stand up cabin, large overhead compartments, and six first class seats.[BR][BR]The RJ is like a mainline jet but will be flown at an Express cost structure. In fact, it will be flown with AA Eagle contracts, which are lower in expense than Comair, ACA, and CO Express. From a business perspective, this will be a compelling RJ product that will have a cost structure to compete with low cost airlines. In addition, this product will have mainline perks like Clubs, seat assignments, FFP, and domestic and international alliance benefits, etc.[BR][BR]Chip
Getting ahead of ourselves
- Thread starter totobird
- Start date
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On 12/22/2002 10:23:30 AM chipmunn wrote:
Chip comments: The company intends on ordering the EMB-170 and EMB-175 to be flown in the new mainline RJ division and as part of the POR, GECAS has reached a global settlement and will finance the order. The EMB-170 is avialable for delivery in the fourth quarter and has 2x2 seating, a large stand up cabin, large overhead compartments, and six first class seats.
The RJ is like a mainline jet but will be flown at an Express cost structure. In fact, it will be flown with AA Eagle contracts, which are lower in expense than Comair, ACA, and CO Express. From a business perspective, this will be a compelling RJ product that will have a cost structure to compete with low cost airlines. In addition, this product will have mainline perks like Clubs, seat assignments, FFP, and domestic and international alliance benefits, etc.
Chip
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The costs of these new EMB170's won't even be close to the low-fare carrier costs. Eagle RJ's have a CASM around 15 cents. Now, if you apply an Eagle contract to the EMB170, you'll likely get a cost structure around 12-13 cents. That doesn't even come close.
As for the other benefits you listed (ie FFP, alliances, clubs, etc), it's pretty obvious that those aren't that effective anymore. If all those things worked so well, the network carriers would be a lot more profitable.
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On 12/22/2002 10:23:30 AM chipmunn wrote:
Chip comments: The company intends on ordering the EMB-170 and EMB-175 to be flown in the new mainline RJ division and as part of the POR, GECAS has reached a global settlement and will finance the order. The EMB-170 is avialable for delivery in the fourth quarter and has 2x2 seating, a large stand up cabin, large overhead compartments, and six first class seats.
The RJ is like a mainline jet but will be flown at an Express cost structure. In fact, it will be flown with AA Eagle contracts, which are lower in expense than Comair, ACA, and CO Express. From a business perspective, this will be a compelling RJ product that will have a cost structure to compete with low cost airlines. In addition, this product will have mainline perks like Clubs, seat assignments, FFP, and domestic and international alliance benefits, etc.
Chip
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[/blockquote]
The costs of these new EMB170's won't even be close to the low-fare carrier costs. Eagle RJ's have a CASM around 15 cents. Now, if you apply an Eagle contract to the EMB170, you'll likely get a cost structure around 12-13 cents. That doesn't even come close.
As for the other benefits you listed (ie FFP, alliances, clubs, etc), it's pretty obvious that those aren't that effective anymore. If all those things worked so well, the network carriers would be a lot more profitable.
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On 12/22/2002 2:17:14 PM DLFlyer31 wrote:
[blockquote]
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On 12/22/2002 10:23:30 AM chipmunn wrote:
Chip comments: The company intends on ordering the EMB-170 and EMB-175 to be flown in the new mainline RJ division and as part of the POR, GECAS has reached a global settlement and will finance the order. The EMB-170 is avialable for delivery in the fourth quarter and has 2x2 seating, a large stand up cabin, large overhead compartments, and six first class seats.
The RJ is like a mainline jet but will be flown at an Express cost structure. In fact, it will be flown with AA Eagle contracts, which are lower in expense than Comair, ACA, and CO Express. From a business perspective, this will be a compelling RJ product that will have a cost structure to compete with low cost airlines. In addition, this product will have mainline perks like Clubs, seat assignments, FFP, and domestic and international alliance benefits, etc.
Chip
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[/blockquote]
The costs of these new EMB170's won't even be close to the low-fare carrier costs. Eagle RJ's have a CASM around 15 cents. Now, if you apply an Eagle contract to the EMB170, you'll likely get a cost structure around 12-13 cents. That doesn't even come close.
As for the other benefits you listed (ie FFP, alliances, clubs, etc), it's pretty obvious that those aren't that effective anymore. If all those things worked so well, the network carriers would be a lot more profitable.
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DLFlyer31,
This has been a danced around issue on this board that needs to be confronted. RJ's have HIGHER CASM's than mainline jets. I'd argue to anyone that RJ's have their place at any carrier - medium range thin routes, proving routes, frequency, etc. But 250 at a carrier U's size? It's ironic, but unsurprising, that U is tying it's future to a/c with the highest CASM's (wonder why WN doesn't have ANY?).
To me, it's simple PalaceThink. WE can do no wrong; the problem MUST be labor costs. How to lower labor costs ---ahhhhhh, RJ's.
This is the same Palace that inherited a fleet of freakin' RJ's, in proper position.
Water under the bridge
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On 12/22/2002 2:17:14 PM DLFlyer31 wrote:
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/22/2002 10:23:30 AM chipmunn wrote:
Chip comments: The company intends on ordering the EMB-170 and EMB-175 to be flown in the new mainline RJ division and as part of the POR, GECAS has reached a global settlement and will finance the order. The EMB-170 is avialable for delivery in the fourth quarter and has 2x2 seating, a large stand up cabin, large overhead compartments, and six first class seats.
The RJ is like a mainline jet but will be flown at an Express cost structure. In fact, it will be flown with AA Eagle contracts, which are lower in expense than Comair, ACA, and CO Express. From a business perspective, this will be a compelling RJ product that will have a cost structure to compete with low cost airlines. In addition, this product will have mainline perks like Clubs, seat assignments, FFP, and domestic and international alliance benefits, etc.
Chip
----------------
[/blockquote]
The costs of these new EMB170's won't even be close to the low-fare carrier costs. Eagle RJ's have a CASM around 15 cents. Now, if you apply an Eagle contract to the EMB170, you'll likely get a cost structure around 12-13 cents. That doesn't even come close.
As for the other benefits you listed (ie FFP, alliances, clubs, etc), it's pretty obvious that those aren't that effective anymore. If all those things worked so well, the network carriers would be a lot more profitable.
----------------
[/blockquote]
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DLFlyer31,
This has been a danced around issue on this board that needs to be confronted. RJ's have HIGHER CASM's than mainline jets. I'd argue to anyone that RJ's have their place at any carrier - medium range thin routes, proving routes, frequency, etc. But 250 at a carrier U's size? It's ironic, but unsurprising, that U is tying it's future to a/c with the highest CASM's (wonder why WN doesn't have ANY?).
To me, it's simple PalaceThink. WE can do no wrong; the problem MUST be labor costs. How to lower labor costs ---ahhhhhh, RJ's.
This is the same Palace that inherited a fleet of freakin' RJ's, in proper position.
Water under the bridge
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On 12/22/2002 9:17:35 PM REACC1 wrote:
Maybe we can retrofit them with business select seats.
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And codename the project High Ground II.
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On 12/22/2002 9:17:35 PM REACC1 wrote:
Maybe we can retrofit them with business select seats.
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And codename the project High Ground II.
So if you are leaving...I'm not going to say you should vote yes or no, my suggestion is - maybe just take your vote and abstain from casting it. Let the people who will be left behind decide how their lives will be lived.
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If union dues are deducted from one’s pay check, that person has every right to vote whatever way they feel. Voting results are not directed by senior union members scared half to death of possible life changes. We all know the game, seniority numbers for days off, vacation, premium jobs, shift preference, and the same with vote numbers. The highest wins. We live and die by both sets of these numbers, they are the rules you signed on with and the rules don't change mid stream because now you are uncomfortable with them. Join the crowd pal, it's called life.
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If union dues are deducted from one’s pay check, that person has every right to vote whatever way they feel. Voting results are not directed by senior union members scared half to death of possible life changes. We all know the game, seniority numbers for days off, vacation, premium jobs, shift preference, and the same with vote numbers. The highest wins. We live and die by both sets of these numbers, they are the rules you signed on with and the rules don't change mid stream because now you are uncomfortable with them. Join the crowd pal, it's called life.
I work for Express. I've heard what the union heads for PSA and Alleghany have been telling their members. The Teamsters Local in PIT has been telling the workers that they are going to be working 70 seat RJ's and that they are going to be making $9 an hour. The SAME thing YOUR unions are telling your furloughed members. Somebody is bull****ing everybody. PSA in PIT averages 1 person for every 3 planes on the ramp. These workers have been killing themselves for garbage wages. 300 flights a day. Now they are promising the same thing to them as they are to YOU. Charles Byrnes is the union head for the teamsters local in PIT for PSA. Everybody is getting the screw job. EVERYBODY needs to call the companys BLUFF and vote NO. And EVERYBODY needs to stick togther. Mainline, Express, whatever. Airline workers are a different breed of people. I don't know about you guys, but I love my job. I love the people. I hate seeing everybody get screwed around. This company is trying to get concessions off of people making $6 dollars an hour!!!!! They have split the troops enough. Lets all stand together and tell them to kiss our collective asses.
