GM Bailout

[UAL_TECH]

Want a federal bailout? Why not bankruptcy, too?

But the current financial crisis has changed the bankruptcy terrain. With the credit markets seizing up, companies would not find easy access to financing. That's why, even as some lawmakers insist that General Motors file for bankruptcy, they acknowledge that federal aid should be part of the package.

Great, Fed Aid to the robber barons and the workers take it in the a$$ again.
This whole bail out debacle is giving to the same a$$holes that put us here in the first place.

Arrrrrrgggggggggg........ :rant:

 

[UAL_TECH]

I could totally support the 25 Billion Dollar Bailout with the following terms and conditions agreed to:

1. The aid package is in the form of a loan and loans are repaid with interest.

2. For the term of the loan all members of the respective management teams with the title of Vice President and above agree to a salary of $1.00 per year with bonues not to exceed 20 times the lowest wages earned by the lowest paid full time employee on the payroll for a full calendar tear.

3. Corporate jets liquidated and all corporate travel must be commercials. No charters, no fractional jet ownerships

I invite anyone else to add to the list. My point is this. If the they really need the bailout then the executive will accept. If not the money stays in the US Treasury

Bob,

IMHO you make too much sense.
But I love You any way... 😛

Take Care,
B) xUAL_TECH

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Well since the Banks are now a socialist operation(Thanx in Large part to BUSH, and a Huge amount of help from GOP members), I'm all for the FEDS giving the Big-3 all the money they need,........With a ZILLION Government STRINGS attatched.

Lets see,

Big Environmental gains,

SCREW the Big Dogs($$$) at the top,

Strengthen the UAW contracts,

And make a truly affordable, functional, energy efficient auto.

"Abso.......(friggin')....lutely",...I can go for that !

What do YOU think "dell",.............can we sign YOU Up ????

 

[southwind]

#1 Management needs to present a viable business plan.

#2 And most importantly is the UAW and employees must be willing to put up funds from their pension or take cuts in other areas, to save their jobs !

Then and ONLY then will I support any type of bail out !

I'm willing to help those who are willing to help themselves !

 

[KCFlyer]

#1 Management needs to present a viable business plan.

#2 And most importantly is the UAW and employees must be willing to put up funds from their pension or take cuts in other areas, to save their jobs !

Then and ONLY then will I support any type of bail out !

I'm willing to help those who are willing to help themselves !

Southwind...so all management needs to do is produce a viable plan and their 7 to 8 figure salary and bonus packages are safe as well as their own pensions and severance packages?

I was reading some GM's SEC filings yesterday and noticed that they mentioned that their execs took what they called "substantial" cuts in their salaries. But read a little further down, and prior to these "substantial" cuts, they also took a salary increase which pretty much DOUBLED their salaries. It's pretty easy to take a "substantial cut" when you took an "obscene increase" the prior year. I'd like to see a lot more skin in the game from the corner offices.

 

[delldude]

Well since the Banks are now a socialist operation(Thanx in Large part to BUSH, and a Huge amount of help from GOP members), I'm all for the FEDS giving the Big-3 all the money they need,........With a ZILLION Government STRINGS attatched.

Lets see,

Big Environmental gains,

SCREW the Big Dogs($$$) at the top,

Strengthen the UAW contracts,

And make a truly affordable, functional, energy efficient auto.

"Abso.......(friggin')....lutely",...I can go for that !

What do YOU think "dell",.............can we sign YOU Up ????

Why strengthen the contracts when combined with exec perc's are the root cause of the problem?

I heard the top guys whining to congress about the reason they aren't selling product is nobody can get loans....so I go watch the tube for awhile and up pops several local dealer ads and they said on them they got access to all kind of banks and loans are no problemo...so who's BSing who here? Besides,big three says they got enough cash to get through 2009.....

Last thing we need is more government meddling into making cars from a bunch of progressive a-holes..

BK isn't the end......

 

[RDU Jetblast]

This is where I have mixed feelings about cutting pay from the UAW workers...This is what they negotiated. The top dogs are not willing to take pay cuts or give up their jets. They make millions/per year and suddenly the person sweating on the floor is overpaid?

The top dogs negotiated tax breaks to build factories in Mexico and shut down factories in the US (eg: Chrysler has a huge plant in Toluca, MX and is shutting down a huge plant in Newark DE. I have seen them both). I say shut down the foreign plants, renegotiate labor contracts, lose the current management, bring in lower paid management people and build more cars in the US as conditions of a bail out. My gut says these guys want this bail out more for the shareholders than the economy.

 

[southwind]

All I'm saying is if Employees and "MANAGEMENT" aren't willing to throw down to save their own azzes, I'll be damned if I'm throwing down for them ! :down:

 

[delldude]

All I'm saying is if Employees and "MANAGEMENT" aren't willing to throw down to save their own azzes, I'll be damned if I'm throwing down for them ! :down:

Here...Here....

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Why strengthen the contracts when combined with exec perc's are the root cause of the problem?

I heard the top guys whining to congress about the reason they aren't selling product is nobody can get loans....so I go watch the tube for awhile and up pops several local dealer ads and they said on them they got access to all kind of banks and loans are no problemo...so who's BSing who here? Besides,big three says they got enough cash to get through 2009.....

Last thing we need is more government meddling into making cars from a bunch of progressive a-holes..

BK isn't the end......

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well (brother) dell,....MORE "government meddling" is EXACTLY what you're gonna get !!!!

Care to know why ??

(Before I give you the answer, only the Feds will loan them...that kind of ..do-re-mi)

Ever heard of the ol' saying........."For every action....there is a equal and opposite reaction" ??
(I know you have),

Or,

"You REAP what you sow" ??

In either case, your boys(the GOP) let Capitalism-AT-ANY-COST, run amok, so NOW it's time to "pay the piper", via the Democrats letting the FEDS virtually take OVER the GREED infested,now broke down..auto Industry.

When people UNDERSTAND that You CAN'T have it both ways, it's really easy to understand !!

 

[KCFlyer]

Okay...here's an addition I'd like to see. If the UAW contracts are going to be thrown out and the UAW pensions are going to be thrown out, and retiree health care is going to be thrown out, then from what I've read here and elsewhere, that would "level the playing field" with the big three and Honda and Toyota. So...if they agree to do that, then the one addition I would make is that the big 3 should shutter the plants in Mexico and Canada and move that production back to an idled AMERICAN plant and hire AMERICAN employees to build the cars.

 

[Kev3188]

This is where I have mixed feelings about cutting pay from the UAW workers...This is what they negotiated. The top dogs are not willing to take pay cuts or give up their jets. They make millions/per year and suddenly the person sweating on the floor is overpaid?

The top dogs negotiated tax breaks to build factories in Mexico and shut down factories in the US (eg: Chrysler has a huge plant in Toluca, MX and is shutting down a huge plant in Newark DE. I have seen them both). I say shut down the foreign plants, renegotiate labor contracts, lose the current management, bring in lower paid management people and build more cars in the US as conditions of a bail out. My gut says these guys want this bail out more for the shareholders than the economy.

Yes!

Okay...here's an addition I'd like to see. If the UAW contracts are going to be thrown out and the UAW pensions are going to be thrown out, and retiree health care is going to be thrown out, then from what I've read here and elsewhere, that would "level the playing field" with the big three and Honda and Toyota. So...if they agree to do that, then the one addition I would make is that the big 3 should shutter the plants in Mexico and Canada and move that production back to an idled AMERICAN plant and hire AMERICAN employees to build the cars.

KC--

The contracts have been negotiated, and I think go a long way to help already. They haven't had much of an effect yet, since they were ratified relatively recently.

Health care is going to be administered by the UAW (starting next year, IIRC), so that burden is eased quite a bit.

Also, the jobs bank program has been revamped quite a bit, which IMO, is a good thing, and helps close the gap...

With all of the early outs taken, a lot of the employees and their salaries will no longer be affecting the bottom line.

 

[dapoes]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well (brother) dell,....MORE "government meddling" is EXACTLY what you're gonna get !!!!

Care to know why ??

(Before I give you the answer, only the Feds will loan them...that kind of ..do-re-mi)

Ever heard of the ol' saying........."For every action....there is a equal and opposite reaction" ??
(I know you have),

Or,

"You REAP what you sow" ??

In either case, your boys(the GOP) let Capitalism-AT-ANY-COST, run amok, so NOW it's time to "pay the piper", via the Democrats letting the FEDS virtually take OVER the GREED infested,now broke down..auto Industry.

When people UNDERSTAND that You CAN'T have it both ways, it's really easy to understand !!

Your boys (the DEMS) have had their hands in this as well. If you seriously think that GM's (and UAW) problems are due to the last 8 years then you really need to have your head examined. Those problems took root for decades during both administrations.

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

The US economy can no longer support defined benefit pension plans in the private sector. Same for retiree health plans.

Yeah, but the public sector employees keep their gold-plated bennies! 🙄

GM derives 54% of their revenue from overseas. Enough of this 'buy American' propaganda.

Ford will be the only Detroit car company left because the Ford family controls 40% of the voting rights thru a Special Class B stock. They've got nothing to lose by holding out. And Ford has credit and a very smart CEO.

Why should our tax dollars bail out Cerebrus (the owner of Chrsyler) who is one of the largest private equity firms in the country?

$25bil more for Detroit is money down a rathole.

 

[RDU Jetblast]

Bringing plants back to the US isn't realistic as long as the costs of the benefits package are at current levels. The actual hourly wages paid aren't a whole lot different across the industry unionized or not. The difference is in things like work rules which are the bane of any manufacturers in any industry. The difference in healthcare costs US versus Canada is around 14% which is why so many high wage auto jobs end up in Canada.

But bringing jobs back has to be realistic. Why should you and I pay so that Chrysler can keep Mexico employed? Or for GM to build SUVs in Russia?

Citizens in this country need to earn money to purchase goods but if US industries are taking jobs elsewhere to do things on the cheap, then where do US citizens get money to buy their products?

The US is the single largest market for everything. Workers in foreign countries earn far less and can't even afford to buy what they make. There is nowhere to sell!

It has to be realistic. It won't work any other way. And if we socialize healthcare, we're on par with Canada.