Gun Threads - Merged

The well regulated militia clause is because the founders expressly intended to avoid a large standing army and pervasive law enforcement presence. Thus, the means available for defense was a populace who could be called to form militias when they were needed.

Nearly everything about that clause has changed.

The expressed right of the people to bear arms has not, and I support it, along with all of the rights, freedoms and responsibilities, both those enumerated and those that are "traditional" or "implied", for everyone.

The right to bear arms refers to arms, not armaments. Arms were understood to mean weapons that the people of the day (any day... Including ours...) might normally have carried. That has been defined by the supreme court in ine case to include shotguns over a certain length, and not to include those under that length. Where so-called assault rifles fit into that is probably as yet unclear, and it is poignant that neither side has pushed the question to the Supreme Court. It does not mean cannon, mortars, tanks or fighter planes with the weapons systems intact.

The oft stated argument that the 2nd was to enable the populace to control teh tyranny of the government has little actual historical support, and is completely irrelevant now that the government at all levels possesses overwhelming superiority in force.

Y'all can look that all up yourselves. I suggest staying away from openly political sources such as the NRA, but it nearly all comes from my reading of pro gun, pro 2nd Amendment and pro freedom organizations, along with my old copy of The Heritage Foundation Guide To The Constitution. The old one, before they too went overtly political.

Oddly, the biggest supporters of the unconstitutional reality of our present day police state and massive standing army are the same people who are most vocal about the 2nd, their right to defend themselves against the very same militarized government, and a strict intrepretation of the constitution (when it suits them...) while gladly supportimg measures that compromise other law-abiding citizens rights and freedoms in the name of either "public safety" or "morality".

Those false "conservatives" thereby earn every bit of the derision that they receive.

ALL of everyone's rights and freedoms are just as important as ANY of anyone's.

That is a true conservative value, and one that the so-called "conservatives" of the Modern GOP has abandoned due to its unholy alliance with the religious right.
 
BTW, USA Today has an editorial written by a 25 yer veteran of the Navy's Special Forces, with extensive actual combat experience. He makes a pretty good case against the idea that a dark theater full of "good guys with guns" is a good thing.

Hell, the NYPD in one gunfight took down more innocent bystanders than bad guys in broad daylight outdoors, and one would presume that the NYPD actually has some training in gunfighting.
 
KCFlyer said:
The fact that you didn't realize there were more than 2 amendments seems to trip you up.
The fact you have to divert to something about the 4a, in a thread about the 2a, shows how you're losing this argument.
 
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townpete said:
The fact you have to divert to something about the 4a, in a thread about the 2a, shows how you're losing this argument.
 
Hmmm....the REASON that I point to the fourth amendment...which I'm pretty sure you haven't a clue what it addresses....is because you are viewing the second as being somehow sacred.  You do not want your government tampering with your sacred right to own a gun that our founding fathers laid out in the second amendment....but I'll bet you stood idly by as your "good guy" government stomped all over your fourth amendment rights.    Tell me...in the past, have you ever uttered the words "if you haven't done anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about"? 
 
KCFlyer said:
Hmmm....the REASON that I point to the fourth amendment...which I'm pretty sure you haven't a clue what it addresses....is because you are viewing the second as being somehow sacred.  You do not want your government tampering with your sacred right to own a gun that our founding fathers laid out in the second amendment....but I'll bet you stood idly by as your "good guy" government stomped all over your fourth amendment rights.    Tell me...in the past, have you ever uttered the words "if you haven't done anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about"?
Liberals, always trying to thread some needle, only to wind up stabbing themselves over absurd reasonings.

lol
 
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townpete said:
Liberals, always trying to thread some needle, only to wind up stabbing themselves over absurd reasonings.

lol
 
Conservatives (tea partiers)...donning their tri corner hats and powdered wigs to fight for protecting the constitution with it's "bill of right".  Are you saying that the 4th amendment, which HAS been infringed pretty badly, is not as important as the second?  ARe there any other amendments that don't count?  
 
Kev3188 said:
Amazing how passive some of them get when it comes to the 4th, isn't it?
I am sure they would support the wanton search and seizure of any house or property owned or operated by a Muslim. Because that would make us safer. Because "we really don't know what the hell they are up to."
 
Kev3188 said:
Amazing how passive some of them get when it comes to the 4th, isn't it?
Amazing how liberals divert from said topic to discuss something totally unrelated.

Liberals be like: LOOK SQUIRREL!!!!

lol
 
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That didn't fit a bumper sticker, a narrative, our support any partisan narrative, did it?
 
Glenn Quagmire said:
I am sure they would support the wanton search and seizure of any house or property owned or operated by a Muslim. Because that would make us safer. Because "we really don't know what the hell they are up to."
The speed with which they're willing to toss the 4th aside is amazing.