Here comes the BK threat from the company

[damajagua]

If it's this important, why wait until Thursday or Friday?...

I'll believe it when I see it, but I think the last statement is probably closest to the truth --- the NMB has limited resources, and lots of parties in negotiations right now, not just at AA.

If the divine message from Pharaoh Bama's NMB is nobody will be released into a cooling off until after His future is decided, they might as well reassign the mediators to where they might be more productive.

Totally agree. Rumors rumors. I will wait till the official announcement.
Nothing from AA or APA. it makes no sense!!!!!

 

[PHAAT DON]

Totally agree. Rumors rumors. I will wait till the official announcement.
Nothing from AA or APA. it makes no sense!!!!!

Phaat Don here.....had a few minutes while I was waiting on my 72 oz. steak here at The Big Texan Steak Ranch in Amarillo. I drove my "company", I mean "union" car up here since we're not negotiating any more. Jack "the quiter" Kane's wife said he was gaining too much weight while we were partying, I mean negotiating. That's too bad because he sure could put 'em down. M. "the fence jumper" Eastoon came with to keep me company. I bet him he would have to go back to his mullet hair style he had in 93 at AFW if I put this steak down. It's a win win for me since I don't have to pay the $72 out of my pocket for the steak. Reminds me of the time I had a bite of steak still sitting on my chin when I thought I had ate it all. Sure wish Chicken Little would have told me but that's not his style. I had to give up line pay to "the fence jumper" for that one. I just want you all to know that you will need to face today's realities and prepare yourself for the BK filing. It will be okay, the TWU will be here to support you but we will be raising your union dues to make up for our loss of income due to the drop in pay you are sure to receive. "The fence jumper" taught us not to worry about our salaries, you, I mean "they" have to pay to keep the key talent up top. Thanks again all you TWU supporters, my life is GREAT!

 

[Super FLUF]

If it's this important, why wait until Thursday or Friday?...

Nothing "urgent" about it. It is just what is happening, and probably coming down the pike. Like AMR, APA has become a huge bureaucracy and the decision making process becomes arduous. I would imagine that the BOD and NOS are discussing their options, general council is chiming in, outside "experts" will be consulted, a strategy will be formulated, a message decided upon and ultimately delivered.

Here is the latest hotline. Obviously the process has been set into motion.



This is APA Communications Committee Chairman Captain Sam Mayer with the APA Information Hotline for Tuesday, August 16.
APA BOARD OF DIRECTORS SPECIAL MEETING: The APA Board of Directors convened at union headquarters at 9 a.m. Central today for this week’s special meeting.
Today’s agenda included opening remarks by APA President Captain Dave Bates, who emphasized the need to make “critical decisions” as the APA leadership addresses key areas of the contract such as scope and pay. The Board received a detailed negotiating recap in executive session by Negotiating Committee Chairman First Officer Neil Roghair, who fielded a large number of questions about recent bargaining sessions.
In addition, the Board received two scheduled briefings consistent with the APA Contingency Committee’s mandate to examine a range of potential scenarios involving American Airlines, such as merger and acquisition activity and financial restructuring. Attorney Krista Fogleman—who regularly provides counsel to APA on benefits-related issues—briefed the Board on the potential effects of Chapter 11 restructuring on pensions, while attorney Fil Agusti of Washington, D.C.-based Steptoe & Johnson provided a general overview of the restructuring process. APA General Counsel Ed James referred Mr. Agusti to APA as a helpful resource for the Contingency Committee. We will make PowerPoint versions of both of these presentations available within the next few days on alliedpilots.org.
The APA Board of Directors recessed shortly after 5 p.m. and will reconvene at 9 a.m. tomorrow. That’s it for now. Thanks for checking this hotline.

 

[CHEWIE]

If a Ch 11 filing occurs, the AMTs don't want the worthless union negotiating for them in bankruptcy, do you?

The time to replace the impotent worthless union was yesterday, guys. How much longer will you suffer two hours of pay per month for substandard representation?

how can you call it a union when the folks who rule it drive trollys in new york and are not answerable to anyone LOL

 

[PHAAT DON]

how can you call it a union when the folks who rule it drive trollys in new york and are not answerable to anyone LOL

Get into my belly Chewie....You're out of order. I'm not worried about you being chewie either, I swallow.

 

[Hopeful]

One thing about bankruptcy is that we will finally see EXACTLY what AA wants and was never able to acheive in negotiations.
I have said on quite a few occasions that AA should have filed when it was the popular thing to do regarding airlines. However, I do not believe that AA chose NOT to go that route because they truly didn't want to screw creditors, shareholders and employees. That's nonsense. They chose NOT to file because they did not want to lose ALL control of running the company.
They assumed employees would bend over as much as humanly possible because "we are lucky to have jobs."
They were ever so grateful when we all folded and voted in force fed concessions. Now they do not want to even come close to restoring what was taken 8+ years ago.

So maybe now they will file Chapter 11 because employees are not buying their poverty defense anymore.
So be it!

But I would like to ask everyone to fully understand what Chapter 11 means. The contract as you know it will be decimated in every way shape and form. Pensions will be frozen no doubt. Don't be surprised if the new contract reduces ALL beneifts and wages. Don't be surprised if BUMPING is also removed because the company says it costs too much to pay proteced members $12500.
I have spoken to several mechanics who truly believe a bankruptcy judge will at least give us the last offer on the table. WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can be sure OH will emerge as a spin off and line mechanics will be paid like 3rd party contractors.
Just please be prepared for the changes that accompany bankruptcy. If you think it's bad now, just wait.
DO NOT let ANY union official tell you we will be better off in bankruptcy.

When I say "LET EM FILE", I do so because I am tired of their threats and greed. File and be done with it.
Do not be surprised that even after bankruptcy, AA will contuinue to lose money because current management sucks.. They could go bankrupt every three years and as long as you have an inept management, they will never be profitable.
Personally I would retire and take a couple of years "before 60" penalty. I imagine those who can, will bail out. I am fortunate in that respect.
Those who can't, need to accept what will be rammed down their throats.
As for the pilots, SCOPE will gone with the stroke of a pen and both they and FAs will find themselves flying more hours with less time off.

All in all, Let AA file..When they still lose money, they can no longer blame labor..But of course they will try.

 

[OldBubba]

15 year of TWA = $94 at 55 years old from the PBGC !!! Sweet isn't !!!!!! I'll be able to drink a bottle of wine once a mo under the overpass!!!!

 

[paul1]

15 year of TWA = $94 at 55 years old from the PBGC !!! Sweet isn't !!!!!! I'll be able to drink a bottle of wine once a mo under the overpass!!!!

Switch to boones farm or maddog 20/20 you will get more bang for your buck. (go for the gallon jugs)

Your welcome!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[eolesen]

Here is the latest hotline. Obviously the process has been set into motion.

Wow, they're looking at contingency plans.

Shocking.

Riveting.

I'm amazed they'd actually be looking at the possible scenarios that could occur while the economy is in turmoil, all the airlines are bracing for a drop-off in both business and leisure travel, and negotiations aren't going well for any of the unions currently in Section 6.

 

[Frank Szabo]

Wow, they're looking at contingency plans.

Shocking.

Riveting.

I'm amazed they'd actually be looking at the possible scenarios that could occur while the economy is in turmoil, all the airlines are bracing for a drop-off in both business and leisure travel, and negotiations aren't going well for any of the unions currently in Section 6.

More theatrics to "benefit" the knuckle-dragging mechanics and related, IMHO. At this point, I simply don't give a tinker's damn anymore what Arpey and company do or concoct along with their defacto wholly owned subsidiary, the twu.

The extent of the lies over the years has only strengthened my resolve to vote "NO" on anything presented to me.

 

[eolesen]

More theatrics to "benefit" the knuckle-dragging mechanics and related, IMHO. At this point, I simply don't give a tinker's damn anymore what Arpey and company do or concoct along with their defacto wholly owned subsidiary, the twu.

The extent of the lies over the years has only strengthened my resolve to vote "NO" on anything presented to me.

Maybe I wasn't clear... APA is the one who is looking at contingencies. And the unions for whom negotiations aren't going well isn't by any means limited to just AA. Pilots at DL, UA/CO are stuck as well, AC is in negotiation with all of its major unions, and I forget who else in the US is stalled.

I'm sure the company is, too, but won't be talking about bankruptcy in public or private until it is obvious that is the direction they're heading. Anything else runs the risk of shareholder suits.

 

[Frank Szabo]

Maybe I wasn't clear... APA is the one who is looking at contingencies. And the unions for whom negotiations aren't going well isn't by any means limited to just AA. Pilots at DL, UA/CO are stuck as well, AC is in negotiation with all of its major unions, and I forget who else in the US is stalled.

I'm sure the company is, too, but won't be talking about bankruptcy in public or private until it is obvious that is the direction they're heading. Anything else runs the risk of shareholder suits.

No - I wasn't clear.

I really used to care about American Airlines, but now I take a pill for that.

 

[eolesen]

You were clear, Frank. Crystal clear.

 

[WorldTraveler]

And the unions for whom negotiations aren't going well isn't by any means limited to just AA. Pilots at DL, UA/CO are stuck as well, AC is in negotiation with all of its major unions, and I forget who else in the US is stalled.

I'm sure the company is, too, but won't be talking about bankruptcy in public or private until it is obvious that is the direction they're heading. Anything else runs the risk of shareholder suits.

really? what information do you have that labor relations at DL and UA are anywhere close to the boiling point that AA's labor relations are... and since DL's pilots still have contractual raises do to be passed out in the next coming months putting them even further ahead of all other US network carriers, I'm not sure where you get that anything is stuck. Even if you look at UA/CO, they still have a long ways to go before things blow up.
OTOH, labor relations at AA and - US, yeah that's the other one - are at the point where the industry could be substantially reshaped in the next six to nine months solely by labor relations at those two carriers. Pretending that everyone else's labor relations are as bad as AA's is stretching the truth more than just a little bit.

.
And no company regardless of whether BK is imminent or not will say anything about BK until the minute AFTER they show up on the courthouse steps - and walk through the door.
.
Hopeful,
You can look at just about any other labor contract or pay scale (for non-union airlines), take the minimum (or in the case of medical benefits take the highest employee costs), then take off another 10% and figure that might be where AA will go with pay and benefit cuts. That isn't meant to scare but to help you realize that if you look at previous airline bankruptcies, the companies dig deep fast in order to stem the losses and provide a chance for the company to survive.
You are absolutely right that the chances are very high that AA will continue to bleed money for some time which is all the more reason why they will take big cuts from employees. AMR is in the unfortunate position of being the only major US airline that has to restructure at the present time which means the competition will be very aggressive in attacking AMR's key revenue - in just the same way that the low fare carriers went after the four network carriers that restructured in the last decade. Add in the fact that the economy is still in the tank and that every carrier is looking for places to redeploy capacity as a result of increased prices throughout the industry - and the resulting reduced capacity in most markets - and AA is in a very difficult position strategically.
.
I know enough AA employees to know that many have prepared for what will come down in the next couple months - whether it is announced in two weeks or two quarters is immaterial in the light of the failed restructuring that has dragged on for 8 years.
Wise AA and AE employees have cut their expenses and debt and are prepared to ride out yet another very turbulent ride in the airline industry.
.
Here's hoping you and others - including my brother - make it through and personally come out relatively unharmed.

 

[787nightmare]

really? what information do you have that labor relations at DL and UA are anywhere close to the boiling point that AA's labor relations are... and since DL's pilots still have contractual raises do to be passed out in the next coming months putting them even further ahead of all other US network carriers, I'm not sure where you get that anything is stuck. Even if you look at UA/CO, they still have a long ways to go before things blow up.
OTOH, labor relations at AA and - US, yeah that's the other one - are at the point where the industry could be substantially reshaped in the next six to nine months solely by labor relations at those two carriers. Pretending that everyone else's labor relations are as bad as AA's is stretching the truth more than just a little bit.

.
And no company regardless of whether BK is imminent or not will say anything about BK until the minute AFTER they show up on the courthouse steps - and walk through the door.
.
Hopeful,
You can look at just about any other labor contract or pay scale (for non-union airlines), take the minimum (or in the case of medical benefits take the highest employee costs), then take off another 10% and figure that might be where AA will go with pay and benefit cuts. That isn't meant to scare but to help you realize that if you look at previous airline bankruptcies, the companies dig deep fast in order to stem the losses and provide a chance for the company to survive.
You are absolutely right that the chances are very high that AA will continue to bleed money for some time which is all the more reason why they will take big cuts from employees. AMR is in the unfortunate position of being the only major US airline that has to restructure at the present time which means the competition will be very aggressive in attacking AMR's key revenue - in just the same way that the low fare carriers went after the four network carriers that restructured in the last decade. Add in the fact that the economy is still in the tank and that every carrier is looking for places to redeploy capacity as a result of increased prices throughout the industry - and the resulting reduced capacity in most markets - and AA is in a very difficult position strategically.
.
I know enough AA employees to know that many have prepared for what will come down in the next couple months - whether it is announced in two weeks or two quarters is immaterial in the light of the failed restructuring that has dragged on for 8 years.
Wise AA and AE employees have cut their expenses and debt and are prepared to ride out yet another very turbulent ride in the airline industry.
.
Here's hoping you and others - including my brother - make it through and personally come out relatively unharmed.

Which...is exactly why I'm careful to leave Boeing on good terms.
Ya never say "never"...as bad as I hated the job.