Here comes the judge!

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chipmunn

Guest
Mrpleanes:

Mrplanes said: Once he issues his decision, a number of scenarios are possible. The future of USAirways survival rests on how a judge interprets the BK code and how Dave and ALPA react to his ruling. It is that simple. I know what ALPA will do. I wonder what Dave will do.

USA Today said on February 20: "The company is on a collision course with some of its best-paid and most-senior employees."

Chip comments: Although talk is cheap, the majority of the rank-and-file still appear to favor a strike if the pilot pension plan is terminated. Expect more news from ALPA after tomorrow's hearing.

Chip
 
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chipmunn

Guest
USAirBoyA330:

I'm not free to discuss it, but you're wrong.

Chip
 

USAirBoyA330

Veteran
Aug 23, 2002
724
0
There will be no strike. The BK Judge will not allow it and if ALPA tries an appeal it will be shot down as well. USAirways has Corp. Offices in DC for a reason and I can tell you that there is NO WAY Dave has come this far to allow that. He will go all the way to the White House to prevent a strike is that's what it takes. None of us are happy about this but just stating the facts. ALPA can activate any committee they want but USAirways will roll over whoever gets in their way....via a court order or presidential intervention.
And I imagine the company has told ALPA that it will go to the press with what they are offering and when that hits the papers in the slanted "company view," ALPA will not have public support when they hear about what pilots were supposed to get and how much they might get now. It's still A LOT more than 75% of most retires get. The way the company will paint it...it will be like ...LOOK AT HOW MUCH MONEY THESE GUYS ARE STILL GETTING....they will paint ALPA as greedy and it will turn ugly. Well,...more ugly than it is now.
 

mrplanes

Advanced
Sep 17, 2002
224
0
Basic points are these:
The company argues the judge has the power to allow Dave to terminate the pilot pension outside of section 1113. They cite case law.
The pilots argue the judge does not have the power to allow Dave to terminate the pension outside of section 1113. They cite case law.
The company has also asked the judge to rule on whether pilot self help is legal if the law allows Dave to terminate the pension.
The judge has no discretion on this. He must adhere to the law. He will decide whether the law allows Dave to terminate or not terminate the pension.
That, in a nutshell, is what is going on. I doubt the judge will rule on the issue on Friday. He will most likely take a number of days or weeks to determine the law.
Once he issues his decision, a number of scenarios are possible. The future of USAirways survival rests on how a judge interprets the BK code and how Dave and ALPA react to his ruling. It is that simple. I know what ALPA will do. I wonder what Dave will do.
mr
 
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chipmunn

Guest
USAirBoyA330:

USAirBoyA330 said: "Then why bother responding? Unless your free to discuss it...then why post something?"

Chip answers: Legal, company, and union plans are usually confidential, but to suggest there is no plan of attack is wrong. ALPA has a plan and according to legal and financial experts, outside of the union, it presents a very compelling argument. Siegel is playing with a "time bomb" here and there is a very good ALPA plan in place - it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I think you and others will be surprised.

Chip
 

autofixer

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
1,804
241
www.usaviation.com
Lou, Did you lose your pension, or was it frozen and an undefined pension started up with company match at that point? I contend your comparison with what is happening pilots' is flawed. The pilots' plan will be terminated, not frozen. Any vested amount that they have in their plan will be liquidated and used for other company business. If the company was offering the pilots the same deal you got, it would most likely be accepted.
 

N786P

Advanced
Nov 8, 2002
144
0
Yeah,the plan is called "C. Y. A.", and everyone else can get over it, is ALPA postion I am sure.
 

Bohica

Member
Aug 19, 2002
92
0
President does not have the authority for a PEB in the event of an 1113 action by the company.

So What will running to the whitehouse do?

Cheers
Bohica
 

OldpropGuy

Advanced
Aug 20, 2002
185
8
Chip,

None of us like what is about to happen. But, it seems you and others are only deceiving yourselves, if you think the judge is going to put the pilots' interest ahead of the creditors. We all know that's not the purpose of chapter 11.
 
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chipmunn

Guest
Lou said: “there are NO pilot jobs out there at the moment and the odds of making anything close to your current income are slim to none and slim left town.â€

Chip comments: Lou, this is untrue.

Autofixer said: “Did you lose your pension, or was it frozen and an undefined pension started up with company match at that point? “

Chip comments: Autofixer, your comments are accurate. The FSA and CSA pensions were frozen and the company did provide these workers with a DC plan. If that was offered to ALPA, I believe the parties could reach an acceptable accord. From my perspective, I could live with my current benefit frozen and a DC plan, if it was offered, which at this point has not been offered.

Oldpropguy said: None of us like what is about to happen. But, it seems you and others are only deceiving yourselves, if you think the judge is going to put the pilots' interest ahead of the creditors. We all know that's not the purpose of chapter 11.

Chip comments: I agree that Judge Mitchell will likely rule in favor of the company, but that does not mean there are not other alternatives. Legally, the company cannot “distress terminate†the pilot pension, or any pension for that matter without giving a 60-day notice. The 60-day notice expires on March 31 and regardless of what happens tomorrow, there will be more news on this still unfolding story. Finally, ALPA has provided three concessions to fund its retirement plan, while every other employee has provided just one. ALPA’s concessions were the 26 to 33 percent restructuring agreement wage cut, the 8 percent supplemental wage cut, and the letter of agreement to eliminate the lump sum, reduce the multiplier from 1.8 to 2.4 percent, and reduce the payout from 65 to 50 percent of the FAE. The letter of agreement reduced corporate contributions by $77 million and another example of pilot sacrifice.

We can argue back and forth on what we all believe is right, but it will not matter. What only matters is that all 12 members of the ALPA MEC and the three MEC officers are in total agreement on its course of action and has made its position well known.

Meanwhile, Barbara De Lollis, USA Today Staff Reporter, I thought said it well today when she wrote in her column, “With US Airways' reorganization plan — and more than $1 billion in post-bankruptcy financing — on the line, the company is on a collision course with some of its best-paid and most-senior employees.â€

Moreover, De Lollis' comments are now being echoed by others because as one Wall Street expert told me, “ALPA has a very compelling argumentâ€. Mrplanes comments in his last post are accurate and are beginning to tell more about this unfolding story. Let's not forget the pension plan cannot be terminated until March 31.

Chip
 

Lou

Member
Aug 20, 2002
33
0
Is it me or is this the same Chip that argued so compellingly how we all should 'do our part' to save the company.

This guy is a trip! He turned coat faster than Benedict Arnold--from company man to man of ALPA spam.

Chip, we lost our pension over 10 years ago, we didnt strike (we were non-union at the time), we just hung in there and doing so by only making a paltrance in pay by comparison.

Certainly the pilots are free to do as they please but remember, there are NO pilot jobs out there at the moment and the odds of making anything close to your current income are slim to none and slim left town.

I know it stinks but hang in there and join the club. Misery loves company you know...
 

genejockey

Advanced
Aug 22, 2002
157
0
www.usaviation.com
I have been told, by someone who I believe to be very credible, that there may be pilot strike immediately AFTER U emerges from BK if the defined pension plan is terminated. Any thoughts?
 

michael707767

Senior
Aug 21, 2002
332
0
Chip, and all the U pilots. I am behind you. At some point, you have to say enough is enough. The U pilots have given more than the rest of us. To terminate their pension is bullsh*t. Restructure it, sure, but to outright terminate it is wrong. If they terminate the pilot pension, what's to stop em from terminating all the pensions at U?
Michael