Highlights Of The AFA Tentative

NAPAUS

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Mar 30, 2003
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Not so bad..Some very similiar things in US agreement. Much better than AA.. Congrats on keeping so many good things..Best of Luck! Peace
 

JAMAKE1

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Feb 15, 2003
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Compared to American''s TA, this is a golden...


Duration:

Six (6) years, 05-01-03 to 05-01-09

Compensation Modifications:

Nine percent (9%) reduction in the following rates of pay:

*All hourly book rates of pay.

*Purser Pay (Note: AA lost narrow-body purser pay!)

*Galley Pay (Applies to 747-400 only)

*Aft Purser Pay (Applies to 747-400 only)

*Language Qualified Pay

*Language Incentive Pay (For language speakers on domestic)

*Reserve Overide (Note: AA lost reserve override pay)

Pay increase of two percent (2%) on the following dates:

05-01-07, 05-01-08, 05-01-09

Eliminate:

*Ground Pay (Holding on the ground with passengers on board)

*ORC (Per diem overrides in Europe and Asia)

*COLA (A-scale cost of living adjustment of $48 per month)

*HNL COLA (Cost of living adjustment for HNL-based F/A''s)

*Reduce per diem from $1.85/hr to $1.75/hr.

(Note: AA''s is $1.75/hr int''l., $1.50/hr domestic)

Holiday Pay:

Paid holidays reduced from ten (10) to five (5).

*New Year''s

*Independence Day (July 4th)

*Thanksgiving Day

*Christmas

*Flight Attendant''s Birthday

(Note: AA lost all paid holidays)

Hourly Domestic Book Rates:

Year 05-01-03 05-01-07 05-01-08 05-01-09

1 19.03 19.41 19.80 20.20

2 20.11 20.51 20.92 21.34

3 21.40 21.83 22.27 22.72

4 22.00 22.44 22.89 23.35

5 24.94 25.44 25.95 26.47

6 32.81 33.47 34.14 34.82

7 34.57 35.26 35.97 36.69

8 35.43 36.14 36.86 37.60

9 36.58 37.31 38.06 38.82

10 37.75 38.51 39.28 40.07

11 38.58 39.35 40.14 40.94

12 39.48 40.27 41.08 41.90

13 40.35 41.16 41.98 42.82

14 40.97 41.79 42.63 43.48

Hourly International Book Rates:

Year 05-01-03 05-01-07 05-01-08 05-01-09

1 19.59 19.98 20.38 20.79

2 20.68 21.09 21.51 21.94

3 21.97 22.41 22.86 23.32

4 22.57 23.02 23.48 23.95

5 25.50 26.01 26.53 27.06

6 36.51 37.24 37.98 38.74

7 38.26 39.03 39.81 40.61

8 39.04 39.82 40.62 41.43

9 40.32 41.13 41.95 42.79

10 41.10 41.92 42.76 43.62

11 42.04 42.88 43.74 44.61

12 43.07 43.93 44.81 45.71

13 43.90 44.78 45.68 46.59

14 44.47 45.36 46.27 47.20

Work Rule Modifications:

*Line of flying monthly maximums increased to 92/184/261
(based on a quarterly system)

*Ability to opt to 97/194/276

*Increase line of flying averages to 84/168/252

*Delete cap on 80 domestic lines

*Domestic flying to include all of Canada
(Note: Hawaii flying remains at international rates of pay)

*Maximum eight (8) segments per duty period

*F/A''s can now be scheduled to work a West Coast to Hawaii
turn in one duty period (previously a one-way deadhead)

Duty Rigs:

*One day trip worth minimum 05:00

*Two day trip worth minimum 10:00 (previously 9:00)

*Three day trip worth minimum 15:00 (previously 17:00)

*Four day trip worth minimum 20:00 (previously 21:00)

Duty Times:

*05:00-18:59 Scheduled: 13:00 (13 hrs) Actual: 14:30

*19:00-04:59 Scheduled: 11:30 Actual: 13:00

Reserves:

*Days off reduced from 12 to 11.

*Combine domestic and int''l into a single reserve pool

*Domestic pay for domestic reserve assignment

*International pay for international reserve assignment
(Note: Currently, int''l reserves earn int''l pay for domestic
trip assignment)

Layovers:

*Downtown layovers of 20 hours or more (currently 13 hours)

Vacation Modifications:

*F/A''s with 25+ years of service accrue 44 days (reduced from
51 days)

(Note: AA F/A''s lost 33% of their vacations in all years)

*Eliminate vacation overlap

*Effective 2004, vacations will be paid at 2.8 hours/day
(Bulking trips within vacation days will be eliminated)

*Reserves paid at 3:57/day, 30-day mo.; 3:45/day 31-day mo.

Medical And Dental Benefit Modification:

*Effective 07-01-03 F/A''s will contribute 10% toward premiums

*Effective 01-01-04, increases to 12%
01-01-05, increases to 14%
01-01-06, increases to 16%
01-01-07, increases to 18%
01-01-08, increases to 20%

Success Sharing:

*Profit Sharing Plan

*Performance Incentive Plan

*Equity in a reorganized United Airlines
 

Borescope

Veteran
Jan 10, 2003
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By the time 2009 rolls around, your goin'' to be so far behind just from inflation. You really got sucker punched on this one.
 

spacewaitress

Senior
Aug 27, 2002
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On 4/18/2003 4:24:21 PM Borescope wrote:

By the time 2009 rolls around, your goin'' to be so far behind just from inflation. You really got sucker punched on this one.



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Duh...so glad you pointed that out.

As far as sucker punched...AFA negotiated hard for the minimal givebacks. I don''t like it one iota, but "the times, they are a-changin."

Most people don''t have all their eggs in this basket. If you do, then you better expand your horizons.
 

JAMAKE1

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Feb 15, 2003
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Spacewaitress:

I too was very pleased with the tentative, all things considered. I think our MEC Negotiating Team did a great job under the circumstances preserving most of our work rules. In that sense, it could''ve been much worse. I just hope the membership doesn''t vote it down. I''d rather cut my losses with this TA than with what the BK judge could impose.
 

flydcoop

Senior
Dec 3, 2002
281
0
St. Louis
Hello UA F/As!

I''m an AA F/A, MUCH better than ours. We''re still in the drama.

SpaceWaitress (one of my descriptions for my job, too funny!) please email me - flydcoop@yahoo.com.

I''m trying to get as much info as possible regarding your T/A, especially what is going on with your pension.

Our Managing (perhaps "MISs-Managing" would be more appropriate) director...one of the golden 45... told us not to pay attention to the UA T/A due to insurance and pension issues. She said we actually have more than you do, I''m not seeing it. I will send you our "bullets" as soon as I find them, our BB has been out-of-control lately. Too tired to search tonight.

Frankly, what you are paying for med. insurance in your first year is equal to what I am paying/pre-funding now.

Any of you, I would love to hear what you think of your T/A and bankruptcy in general.

I know US got double-dipped and that greatly influenced my "NO" vote (not the mention, never trusting SR MGMT as far as I could throw them, this was before the big scAAndal).

Any help would be appreciated. I really don''t care to be a party to a group that brought down the bar for all of us.

Good luck to you!

Coop

AA/MIA domestic
 

mmahpeel

Member
Oct 20, 2002
26
0
www.usaviation.com
flydcoop-

If you are referring to the email reply sent out by AA''s Jane Allen - I saw it and some of what she says is correct....

HOWEVER, much of what she says is incorrect. I don''t have a copy of it, but I remember there were 3 big areas where she was incorrect, one of which was our duty rigs for a 1-day trip....she was trying to tell the AA F/A''s that at UA we will not have a minimum duty-credit for a 1-day trip. We do - it''s 5 hours! Further, we are INCREASING our 2-day trip rig to 10 hours (from 9 hours), and even though we are giving up our 17-hour 3-day rig to go to 15-hours, the 1 for 3 1/2 time-away rig will mean many 3-day trips will be over 17 hours anyway.

I also remember her stating that our retirement multiplier was being reduced. Yes, it is being reduced but the entire retirement equation is being changed - so the context she was using was blatantly misleading. Actually, our pension amounts really aren''t changing but by a very small amount (a matter of a few dollars benefit per month), and in some cases the new formula is better, especially for those who will not be retiring for several more years. What will be changing is the age of retirement (up to 55) and the pre-medicare costs.

Further, she didn''t elaborate on anything that AFA was able to preserve... I didn''t study Jane''s email extensively but it sure seemed that many points were carefully omitted by her in an attempt to gain support for the AA/APFA proposal.

Make no mistake, it sucks. We are in some ways taking a bigger hit in some areas than AA F/A''s (hey, we are in Chapter 11 after all!), but some of the things that AA is taking away seem really severe, and I can''t help but think that some of the terms of the AA/APFA tentative are really panic-driven. Not that anyone shouldn''t fear Chapter 11 - but the chances at this point that AA will have to go down that route anyway appear high.

I mean, honestly, UA is looking pretty good for some sort of stability if not recovery - how can AA compete against UA with the lower lease payments and other costs that are being sliced by UA through the Chapter 11 process? AA knows it has to do the same. Not that I wish this on anyone....
 

JAMAKE1

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Feb 15, 2003
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Looks like the proposed changes are already reflected in the May bid lines:

*Westcoast-Hawaii turns

*Airport layovers (less than 20 hrs.) (sucks)

*Lines of flying built to 90 hrs. (yuck)

*Combined international and domestic reserve lines

I suppose if the agreement were to not be ratified, the company will dash into bankruptcy court and have the these
conditions imposed upon us anyway (with possibly greater consequences).

Still, it''s less painful than AA''s TA.
 

MiAAmi

Veteran
Aug 21, 2002
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It is my understanding that these changes were hammered out between AFA and UA. Is this correct? The reason I am asking is that lots of AA f/a''s believe that this is what the BK judge gave you. They seem to think that it would be better to have the BK judge decide the AA''s concessions.
 

JAMAKE1

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Feb 15, 2003
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Hi MIAAMI:

You are correct. Our MEC Negotiating Committe hammered out this TA with management. In spite of the circumstances I think they did an excellent job of minimizing the impact of our sacrifices. I was happy to see that we got to keep at least 5 paid holidays (the company wanted to go from 10 to 2). We had already agreed to an interim wage reduction of 9%, which went into effect on Feb. 1, I think. I was expecting a more severe reduction. Reserve F/A''s lost an extra day off (we went from 12 to 11),but this was a compromise as the company wanted to be able to move up to
4 days off in a given month (I''ll take the 11 days off to preserve the integrity of my scheduled days off).

If this TA were to be voted down, I believe, in light of a
more punitive TA at AA, that the company would have sought
even deeper cuts than what has been negotiated.

I was surprised that we kept a lot of incremental pay items such as reimbursement for uniform dry cleaning, reimbursement of up to $10 for taxi and/or shuttle if F/A''s
check in is before 07:00 and after 21:00, understaffing,
etc.

It''s not a great tentative, but certainly is workable.
 

ual747mech

Senior
Nov 26, 2002
279
0
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On 4/29/2003 1:35:46 PM MiAAmi wrote:

It is my understanding that these changes were hammered out between AFA and UA. Is this correct? The reason I am asking is that lots of AA f/a''s believe that this is what the BK judge gave you. They seem to think that it would be better to have the BK judge decide the AA''s concessions.

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That goes to show you, there''s a lot of naive people around here. They make blind decision all the time. Yes, everybody''s agreement was negotiated to answer your question. Tell them to learn the facts first.

Here''s a Q&A page for those who don''t know what they''re up against.

http://www.unitedafa.org/features/bankrupt...da_20020814.htm
 

ual747mech

Senior
Nov 26, 2002
279
0
HEY SPACECADET!

You sound like you're one those who's always on pms. I bet you're one those who give all the SA's a hard time huh. Lol.
 

spacewaitress

Senior
Aug 27, 2002
468
0
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On 4/29/2003 9:57:18 PM ual747mech wrote:

HEY SPACECADET!

... I bet you''re one those who give all the SA''s a hard time huh.
----------------​
Uh, what did you have in mind big boy?
 

ual747mech

Senior
Nov 26, 2002
279
0
----------------
On 5/3/2003 6:44:34 PM spacewaitress wrote:

----------------
On 4/29/2003 9:57:18 PM ual747mech wrote:

HEY SPACECADET!

... I bet you''re one those who give all the SA''s a hard time huh.
----------------​
Uh, what did you have in mind big boy?


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No, thank you. Have a nice day:)