Icefield Helicopter Tours

[Blackmac]

Vert-Ref: I learned something new, first time I heard of giving a customer a break on time to be assured of a call back.

In my personal opinion if a helicopter pilot has reached 3K without killing himself the rest is time in.

Depending on what a pilot is actually doing or employed at says alot to his experience at that job. Any pilot who is replacing a pilot on a particular contract that the replacement pilot has not flown before should get a complete briefing as to what is expected of him even if he has done it all, including having 10k experience. The pilot he is replacing might only have 2K, but he has more experience on that particular contract.

When I had the job of ops mgr, I would never put a low time pilot on a base, because he didn''t have enough exposure to different situations and would probably get into a situation that he couldn''t handle.

Low time pilots should only be sent on jobs that they can handle with confidence and that way the customer does not have to know and the pilot builds up experience.

Any company that send out a pilot to do a job with there fingers crossed, need thier head read.

Most accidents are caused by pilots exceeding thier own capabilities or the aircraft''s.

Have any unemployed pilots approached Human Resources Canada with the help of there local MP and tried to get additional funding allocated to companies that will hire low time pilots to gain experience.
It has been done before. A person that has invested 40-50k in a CPL is not just playing around and should get some kind of a break.

Possibly the H-A-C can have some input along with ATAC.

 

[VERTICAL REF]

Blackie...happens quite a bit in production flying. Someone always wants to be the best. Why do you think clients put multiple companies on job sites. Not only does the client get the best rate but the most efficient one as well!!!

Your on a fire, getting a little long in the tooth, little under the weather, little tired too. You keep getting lapped in the circuit. Your doing just as much flying as everyone else but half the work, hmmmm, clients notice this kind of thing!
There are production jobs that are run by the stop watch!!!


So let me get this straight, we lie and add hours, then when we have them, we lie again and subtract. roll eyes...roll eyes...rolleyes...

This is the procedure? .Guess the first pilots must have been lawyers too? no?

So my point being, slagging a 100 hr guy who is trying to get going, what is worse? Or the guy who has been doing it for decades cutting time to look good? Again, I have more respect for the lowtimer...

 

[canook pilot]

I not to sure you are right saying that you should not put a low time pilot on a base that has all high time pilots. I found when I was coming up the rakes that I looked forward to work with high time pilots. A person with the right frame of mind can learn alot from the old guys.(I sure did)
The line I heard the most is "don''t ever try to fly like a high timer, fly at your own level and you will live longer"
I guessed it worked so far, I''m still here and hitting 9500.0 hrs.

 

[CHEVY II]

canook...I must also disagree with you.
I was told to pad my book a couple of times by pilots senior to me, I chose not to. Might also be the reason why it took so long to get where I''m now...just figured the check ride would tell all. It worked out anyway...was much better being the 100hr that flew like a 500hr than being the 1000hr that presented himself as 500hr.
Now...show me the $$$ !

 

[Charles W.]

CTD:

I would be more than pleased to help you out even if it means writing something...

But there are several little problems that always seem to derail me, one is I am a pilot and by nature a procrastinator and sometimes down right lazy. Then there is the mechanic side of my chamleon like make up that is creative, hard working and constructive.

Here is a suggestion, why don''t one of you guys that write the safety letters either fixed or rotary wing phone me some day and tape our conversation. I still want to share the f..k up that ruined my fifty year safety record.

If you phone me that will get the process going and then I can dig out the pictures of that machine blocking the runway in France and share my sad tale with the industry.

Don''t worry about the cost of the phone call because your superiors are spending tens of thousands in our little "problem" that I have with the management level of TC.

But hey, you are the good guys and until the protect their own culture that pervails in the good old boys club that is upper management in TC gets the political will to clean up their act I must support the good side of TC.

Tomorrow at 10 AM I meet for the last time outside of court with the acting Director General Pacific Region Transport Canada.

Regardless of his position with regard to my complaint this time will be different.

There will be no more covering up or stonewalling and what in my opinion is amoral disregard for the rights of Transport Canadas, as they like to call us "customers".

This time all the names of the people that have been involved in the handling of the going on three year struggle I have had with TC will be public information.

The time has come for me to lay everything out in the open, no more high level civil servants beavering away in their offices out of sight of the public making decisions that ruin peoples lives, just to protect their own.

Even if I have to go to prison it will be worth exposing the whole sorry mess.

Meanwhile you can rest assured that for me nothing changes, I still believe in my chosen career and admire those who deserve admiration..

Chuck Ellsworth

 

[VERTICAL REF]

CTD, where the hell did you find that roll eyes and "sup" icon!!!

me needs them...

 

[Blackmac]

Canook; my reference to a base was not to allow a lowtime''er to be put in a situation he could not handle.

i.e. I was the only person on a base and was sent a low time pilot to give me a hand with some of the flying. I did not have time to train him and or control what job to give him, so I sent him back.

Most low time pilots do not have the exposure (experience) to know that they are not yet capable of doing certain jobs. Most pilots having gained 5 hundred to a thousand hours will usually look back and wonder why they were so lucky to have made this far without any major mishaps.

Most base jobs with a minimum of two pilots can be called upon to do anything that the helicopter is capable of doing. That is why I said experience counts.

IF YOU ARE PROVIDING CUSTOMER SERVICE, THE CUSTOMER IS PAYING FOR A HELICOPTER THAT IS CAPABLE OF BEING USED TO ITS MAXIMUM CAPABILITIES, INCLUDING PILOT.

 

[cap]

Canook pilot----- you start lieing in your logbook and you better be able to back it up, should the day of bending, ripping and tearing metal come to visit you. First they sue companies and then they come to your door. You got that far and it didn''t happen to you, then wipe your brow for the luck, but don''t suggest it to the ''starters'' please. Any ''old timer'' out there that would suggest that to a ''newbie'' needs an operation to remove someone''s foot from his rectum.
I got that ego ''thing'' taken out of me, hard and fast, eons ago. So if someone is faster, can lift more and the client doesn''t want me, then I''ll leave. I go out, do my best, work within the capibilities of the a/c, try to keep the client happy and the engineer smiling. Some other ''hot dog'' wants to play ''Joe Dynamic, hero of the bush'' with me and he''ll find that ''I don''t dance''. I don''t get ''run off'' much either.
Somebody wants to work for nothing, then I consider that their business. They''re the person with the empty wallet, not me. I don''t know their personal affairs so I can''t sit in judgement. You do what you have to do to survive in this world. Padding the logbook ----do so, but first do yourself a favour and find out what you are leaving yourself open for legally, should that accident happen.

 

[canook pilot]

The only hours that I have in my log book that I never flew is about 40 hrs. But that goes back fifteen years ago and by now I have lots of hrs that I haven't logged, so I'm not to worried about backing up my time.

 

[cap]

Canook Pilot ---- 40 hours doesn't mean 'diddley'. I'd suggest that there would be more hours than that padded and that is where the 'newbie' goes in harm's way. Your 40 hours isn't what I was alluding to. Nobody can tell the difference between a 200 hour pilot and a 240 hour pilot. They may not even be able to tell the difference between the 400 hour and the 1000 hour pilot. Should such be the case and there's an accident, lawyers can make sure that 2 of every 3 cents that pilot earns for the rest of his life, are used to pay that lawsuit. All I'm advising is that before some new pilot does so, they better sit down and think about it for a while. We live in the day of lawsuits for any reason and we ALL have to conduct ourselves differently than years ago.

 

[canook pilot]

Cap- Tell me about, it I just went threw a law suit and those lawyers can sure can make it hell.

 

[downwash]

So, has anyone got an update on Charles'' meet with fate yesterday?

I kept wondering what everyone meant by ''ego'' until I remembered that the correct spelling is p-i-l-o-t!

 

[Charles W.]

Downwash:

The meeting lasted all day.

I have always been of the beliefe that truth will always win.

Finally I am satisfied that my life long belief in the rule of law and the structure of Transport Canada will in the end guarantee that we all on both sides of the coin us and TC can gain a fair resolution if we first have a legitimate complaint and refuse to be dismissed and second do not quit until it is resolved by the simple method of getting to the truth.

The monster that is Transport Canada can be difficult to penetrate deep enough to get to the truth but it can be done.

Yesterday has given me the assurance this will be resolved fairly for all concerned.

And it will not be in secret.

So that is as much as I will divulge at this point in time.

The very reverend Chas W....Retired Merc..

 

[downwash]

Good to hear, Chas, and thanks for the update. Kind of rekindles ''the faith'' what?

 

[autorotate]

All Involved

I just recently read all of the idiocracy in this forum and can''t believe believe it!!! I''m a low time pilot, and have been looking for a job for several years. Rather than taking all that is written here at face value, I decided to call Icefield Helicopter Tours and find out the goods myself.

When I called, I ended up talking to a guy who is now there for his third season and has managed to acquire 350 hours. Throughout the conversation I couldn''t help, but to get the impression that he is very happy there and has had nothing other than positive experiences.

Now on to my findings
1) When you start, you do volunteer.
2) Meals and accomodation are paid for.
3) You do pay for your own initail training and PPC, but NOT at charter rates.
4) If your work ethic warrants, you fly within the first year. If not you look for another job.
5) You are paid $25/flt. hr.
6) If you return the second year, you are still paid $25/hr and are guaranteed 2 hrs/day.

After looking for 3 years and finding nothing other than the proverbial "Thanks for stopping in, good luck and hang in there!!!", I''m jumping in my car tomorrow to go check this place out. Any lowtimer who isn''t willing roll the dice in this situation has rocks in his head. What else is out there? Not a F#%&ING thing!!! Maybe the odd guy can find something like mixing chemicals for a spray crew (I have two friends who took this rout) and MAYBEE you will get a chance to be the ONE of EIGHT on the crew to be chosen to fly the next year. GOOD LUCK SUCKER!!!

As for the Vaseline, or how ever the hell you spell it, don''t fool yourself. You started bending foreward for some soft slow lubricated penitration when you stroked your first cheque to your flight training school. Those guys paint the rosy picture for all who have 40 grand at their disposal. These guys are endorsed to print money.

Sharkey and Puddle Jumper are so wrapped up in at least making minumum wage for their efforts that they lost sight of the cash they already invested. Puddle Jumper has been "rewarded" for his hard work with a coupel of hours of flying, I''d call this VOLUNTEER work.

Now for the high time guys out there. I''m sure someone out there is a CP or Ops Manager. I''d like to know how many low timers you or your company has hired lately, and how much flying they get. Likely the answer is 0 and 0.

Good Luck All!!!