Your response to my post, imho, would not inspire me to contribute to the eric ferguson personal id defense fund, aol, west pilot fund, if I were a west pilot.
Injunction is out
- Thread starter Move2CLT
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Your response to my post, imho, would not inspire me to contribute to the eric ferguson personal id defense fund, aol, west pilot fund, if I were a west pilot.
767jetz
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Nos, YOU are a liar. United and Continental pilots are not fighting over seniority. We are not fighting over contract negotiations either. The only fight going on right now at United Continental Holdings is between the 12,000 unified pilots and the new management. Period.
Quote all the old news you want. (And next time you post info on UA, don't deliberately delete the date. That way others can see you for the liar you are.) Wish upon a star that others will suffer your unique form of misery. You are simply wrong. And everyone knows it. You only demonstrate the reason for your negative rating around here by spreading nothing but USAPA propaganda, wishful thinking and lies.
More proof of how ignorant you are of the facts. UA and CO pilots have not even started seniority integration talks yet. How could they possibly be fighting over something that isn't happening yet? Seniority is prohibited by ALPA from being discussed while Joint Contract negotiations are ongoing. See.... you are a liar.
Here's even more proof. A quote from Jay Heppner, dated 9/30/2011 (4 days ago. Not a year ago!):
"Sixteen months ago, when the merger with Continental Airlines was announced, your MEC Negotiating Committee began work on a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA) with our fellow Continental Pilots. Per ALPA Merger Policy, a Joint Negotiating Committee (JNC) was formed to accomplish this task composed of three members of each airline’s Negotiating Committee. I have been the Co-Chairman of the JNC continuously since its inception.
The Pilots of United Airlines and of Continental Airlines have very different histories, cultures, beliefs, relationships, and most notably different contracts. Today’s negotiations have been called the most complex negotiations in ALPA history. Yet the two sides of the JNC representing very divergent Pilot groups were able to unify themselves and reach agreement and consensus on EVERY aspect of our JCBA."
Boy, don't you look foolish now!
Move2CLT
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USAPAs homework is now due and they failed to impress IMHO.
LOA93 on deck now. I hear Bular asked Parker to wait last week as a one - two punch would have sent you east guys over the edge. He was afraid you'd plant another one in the ground.
LOA93 on deck now. I hear Bular asked Parker to wait last week as a one - two punch would have sent you east guys over the edge. He was afraid you'd plant another one in the ground.
luvthe9
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And that won't matter at very soon, you know what I'm talking about Move? and it ain't LOA93.
luvthe9
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Jetz, your the liar on this one they want nothing to with UAL, remember your their America West, none of my very senior friends want you guys. Now that's a fact!!!!
767jetz
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Just like your partner in crime, Nos. Dream on Luv. Can you show me something recent that proves your point? I've posted a direct quote. You can not refute the evidence can you? Just rumor and innuendo. Nos posted a link the other day to a year old dispute between MEC's that has long since been resolved. He is the liar, as are you.
I've walked 4 picket lines with HUNDREDS of my CO counterparts. I know several of them personally. I know others through outside ventures. I've talked extensively with their ALPA reps. Not one has shown any animosity to me or UA or anyone but management. It's called unity. 12,000 pilots worth. Something you will never understand in your selfish, self centered world of career disaster. So you talked to a handful that told you what you want to hear on your jumpseat? Your "very senior friends" are not in touch with reality. It's not even a pixel of the big picture that is 12,000 pilot strong. Sorry it's so hard for you to accept.
Move2CLT
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What do you have luv? The AA merger? DAL merger? Which one of those is exciting you?
Move2CLT
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Not one "on board" in CLT today. Glad to see you guys have figured it out so much for the silly injunction. Seems to have shut the easties right up.
SparrowHawk
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I think they should merge this thread with the other Pilot thread and tittle it "A Debate between people form the shallow end of the gene pool, where the Family Tree has no fork"
Move2CLT
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And you should start a thread called "My girlfriend stole money from me and I'm hiding out on this forum because a drug dealer is after me."I think they should merge this thread with the other Pilot thread and tittle it "A Debate between people form the shallow end of the gene pool, where the Family Tree has no fork"
SparrowHawk
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I would but I don't think I'm all that interesting
Move2CLT
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No, you are! Who else has changed their screen name because a crack dealer held a gun to his head?
I do not feel the love you portray because of the following ual mec update.
............... A Message From the Master Chairman, Captain Wendy Morse September 17th, 2011.
"The latest round of squabbling by some members of the MEC through their council publications in response to MEC Secretary-Treasurer Captain Joseph Genovese's letter to you Monday demonstrates that it’s “business as usual” for some members of the MEC, who continue to indulge in obstructionist behavior that has characterized the last 19 months of my term in office. This behavior weakens us all and is impeding what is already a very difficult task: negotiating a new contract with a management that for much of the last 28 years has had the freedom to treat employees as they chose, and is fighting tooth and nail to prevent ALPA from becoming an equal partner.
Many of these MEC members have been thumping their chests for their constituencies, telling them that all we need to get a contract is “tougher” leadership. Yet they know full well what I and UAL-MEC Negotiating Committee Chairman Captain Jay Heppner have been saying for months: negotiating a new contract is a strictly-defined process that is governed by the Railway Labor Act, and it’s a process that federal law requires us to follow. It is not a labor-friendly process, especially when it is backed up by a federal injunction. “Chest thumping” alternatives that violate the federally-mandated status quo would slow, not speed up, the process, and could very well lead to punitive damages. ALL the members of the UAL-MEC understand this very well, despite the rhetoric they feed the members of their councils.
The crux of the most recent matter is the Special MEC meeting called for by five members of the MEC (which later became six) for this past week. If you have been following along, we had five council roadshows which were scheduled for this week upon the suggestion of many of the same MEC members calling for the meeting.
A Special MEC meeting has been called for Monday; and based on the rhetoric, there are a couple of issues that absolutely need clarification:
• The concept that I am negotiating a contract around the negotiating committee. CAL-MEC Chairman Captain Jay Pierce and I meet periodically with labor relations and human resource management, to whom the management negotiators at the table report to, not to talk about specific items on the table but to talk about the status of negotiations and the need to move the process. Is there any pilot here satisfied with the pace of negotiations? It is our job to continue to look for avenues to rectify this.
• I am working around the MEC. I have not and quite simply cannot work around the MEC. All agreements are brought to the MEC for a decision. The name of the former MEC Chairman thrown around in an effort to associate me with him is purely intended to mislead for political purposes, and those that do this step over the name of the former MEC Chairman and contract that I was fully a part of, Contract 2000. It is easy to throw out bad processes from the past, processes that have been rectified by updated MEC policy manual language. All Letters of Agreement and Memorandums of Understanding must be approved by the MEC.
• That I’m withholding information.
Before suggestions or strategies are ready to be presented to the MEC, they must be researched and fleshed out by the MEC officers and committees when appropriate. We do not execute strategies without MEC direction.
*
I consistently provide information to the MEC verbally. It is hard to send out confidential documents when it is known that information from documents has not been kept confidential, despite signed confidentiality agreements, and it is unknown where they will end up. Previous MEC Chairman had to take similar actions.
The sensationalized propaganda put out in council publications this week crying foul is politically motivated and designed to obfuscate.
My fellow pilots, telling your constituents one thing and then behaving in the exact opposite manner at the MEC table is not leadership.
Now to the question that everyone has been asking all week long at the roadshows: WHEN are we going to get a contract? The answer is, when both parties to the negotiations are motivated to achieve a new contract, one that recognizes the financial sacrifices we made in bankruptcy in lieu of work rules. Just ask the average CAL pilot about their quality of life, and you will quickly understand why CAL-MEC Chairman Captain Jay Pierce, the CAL-MEC Negotiating Committee and the CAL-MEC are united in their opinion that the JCBA MUST have UAL, not CAL work rules.
So, what will it take to motivate a recalcitrant management to agree to a contract that properly recognizes the fact that the contributions of the pilots are vital to the success of the new United Airlines?
First is the National Mediation Board. Although the negotiating mechanisms of the RLA are not conducive to quick settlements when parties are far apart, the NMB and its staff are helpful. Since the NMB mediator has become involved on a frequent basis, the negotiations have become more productive but are still well below the pace we would like to see.
Second, we have the fact that the new management has been everywhere repeatedly trumpeting the success of the merger. Although they may not care what the vast majority of the flying public thinks, they do care about what the financial and investment communities think. The investment communities are now asking the hard poignant questions of management. How is it going to appear when photos and videos of disciplined ranks of uniformed pilots marching down Wall Street are splashed across the pages and screens of the national media, demonstrating that the Emperor has no clothes?
We have other weapons in our arsenal, but I’m sure you all appreciate that we can’t telegraph our plans to you without telegraphing them to the entire world, and that comes right back to your MEC: Our MEC members must abide by the confidentiality agreements, or they risk jeopardizing a strategy that we all agree is the only way to achieve success in our negotiations. "
SparrowHawk
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You play pretty fast and loose with the facts! You must be an East Pilot
On a side note, I love the Titles Union Leaders give themselves, Like "Master Chairman" or "Grand Lodge Chairman" among others. Why not
Big Muckety Muck? or Head Mother F'er In Charge?
