Intl Capacity Cuts and A330

[nycbusdriver]

When Wolf got the largest Airbus order in the history of aviation and lure the pilots for concession are these A330 apart of the original order and was financing work out then

The A330s were not part of Wolf's "more Airbuses than God can count" sleaze. Those were an order for 400 A320 series airplanes. Typically, the pilots, with ALPA MEC backing, bought into the ploy. Most of those 400 were ephemera, as are all promises made by that, and this, management. They will say ANYTHING to get what they want, then walk away with impunity as they quickly forget those promises.

 

[BoeingBoy]

When Wolf got the largest Airbus order in the history of aviation and lure the pilots for concession are these A330 apart of the original order and was financing work out then

They may have been part of that original order - either firm or options. One would have to go back to the original order to see which. However, in trying to keep money coming in to keep the doors open during BK 2 all the deposit and progress payment money was refunded by Airbus (less a chunk for their trouble) and the outstanding orders went into limbo - the planes were still technically on order but with had no delivery dates nor payments made toward their delivery, so were more like options than orders.

After the merger, the orders were reinstated with deposits placed and progress payments made and the number of planes increased.

Jim

 

[A320 Driver]

They may have been part of that original order - either firm or options. One would have to go back to the original order to see which. However, in trying to keep money coming in to keep the doors open during BK 2 all the deposit and progress payment money was refunded by Airbus (less a chunk for their trouble) and the outstanding orders went into limbo - the planes were still technically on order but with had no delivery dates nor payments made toward their delivery, so were more like options than orders.

After the merger, the orders were reinstated with deposits placed and progress payments made and the number of planes increased.

Jim

Howdy Jim,

Initial A330-300s were ordered in June of 1998. They could have been part of the initial order with the confirmation coming in June...who knows.

Later...

A320 Driver B)

 

[BoeingBoy]

Do you happen to know whether the original firm orders included the 330's coming this year? I don't have a clue and US.com only has press releases going back to 2004. I haven't looked to see whether quarterly/annual reports are available that far back or not.

Jim

 

[A320 Driver]

Do you happen to know whether the original firm orders included the 330's coming this year? I don't have a clue and US.com only has press releases going back to 2004. I haven't looked to see whether quarterly/annual reports are available that far back or not.

Jim

There were so many "convertable" orders tied into the original, I don't know how you would ever sort it all out. I do know that Parker made a statement once upon a time that these were NOT new orders.

B)

 

[BoeingBoy]

Curiosity got the better of me, and the SEC filings are still available that far back.

On July 2, 1998, US announced that it had ordered "up to" 30 A330-300's - including 7 firm orders, 7 orders to be reconfirmed, and 16 options. The first of the firm orders was to be delivered in the 4th quarter of 1999 and the 6 remaining firm orders delivered in 2000. Orders to be reconfirmed were for 2001 delivery.

Per the 1999 Annual Report, delivery was delayed and the first A330-300 was to enter service in the 2nd quarter of 2000 instead of the 4th quarter of 1999. Also, the original order had been changed to 10 firm orders, 4 subject to reconfirmation, and the 16 options.

Per the 2000 Annual Report, US had 6 A330-300's at the end of the year and only had 4 more A330's on firm order, with options for 20 more (still with the ability to substitued other Airbus widebody aircraft for the A330-300).

Per the 2001 Annual Report, US had 9 A330-300's. The one remaining A330-300 on firm order was deferred to 2007. Based on this, it appears that only 1 of this year's A330 deliveries was from the original firm order.

Per the 2002 Annual Report, US revised the Airbus order to convert the 1 remaining A330 order to 10 A330-200's (concurrently reducing A320 orders from 37 to 19) to be delivered during the period 2007 through 2009.

Other than financing arrangements, there was no change to the A330 orders in 2003, per the Annual Report.

In Feb 2005 in BK2, the judge approved the agreement with Airbus to delivery schedule for the remaining A330's to the 2008 through 2009 time frame. This was the agreement that also provided that US would get deposits/progress payments returned by Airbus, canceling specific delivery dates.

In connection with the merger, US and Airbus reached agreement whereby US agreed to assume the purchase committments for Airbus aircraft (narrowbody and widebody), adjust the delivery schedule of aircraft from Airbus (hence getting the first A330-200's in 2009 instead of 2008) and order the A350. Airbus agreed to eliminate the cancellation penalties on US' existing orders as long as US met predelivery payment requirements (reinstating the deposits/progress payments) and to loan US $250 million of which part would be used for the deposits on A330's and A350's.

So to recap, US had taken delivery of the 9 A330-300's currently on the property and had orders for 10 additional A330-200's but had no deposits/progress payments in place for those additional 10 airplanes. The Airbus agreement in connection with the merger provided the loan from Airbus to bring depostis/progress payments up to date and confirm a delivery schedule.

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

I do know that Parker made a statement once upon a time that these were NOT new orders.

Correct - 10 orders existed but without any deposits/progress payments made toward those orders. Without the merger and Airbus' loan in connection with it there was no specific delivery schedule established for those orders, however. In other words, Airbus would have carried those orders on the books but would not have built any airplanes in US' configuration until the money was in their hands. Once Airbus had the money a delivery schedule was set.

Jim

 

[Travelpro72]

A lot of talk going on over at Airliners.net that the first A330-200 on the way is sporting a new or revised livery. In this day and age I can't BELIEVE that a picture has not been snapped yet. Any details? Anything that was done with this in house "Johnny draws his first airplane" livery is an improvement.

 

[Dog Wonder]

My guess is it looks like Solid Cactus' avatar.

 

[700UW]

Could be one in the Star Alliance colors since US doesnt have a widebody in the Star Livery yet and I think they are required too have some of the widebodies done.

 

[Travelpro72]

From what I have heard it isn't STAR as there is a flag on the tail. They are not saying it is a whole new livery. Simply a slight revision to the waves over the tail or something. I guess we'll have to wait and see. Isn't it funny how info can be leaked about the president of the USA but can't get a glimpse of a new a/c?

 

[OTslave]

From what I have heard it isn't STAR as there is a flag on the tail. They are not saying it is a whole new livery. Simply a slight revision to the waves over the tail or something. I guess we'll have to wait and see. Isn't it funny how info can be leaked about the president of the USA but can't get a glimpse of a new a/c?

From what I've seen the guessing and discussion on airliners.net all comes from this post -
http://www.flightglobal.com/AIRSPACE/forum...3-09-23036.aspx
So I guess it'll be a guess until someone snaps a picture.

 

[beachboy]

The 330 200 has a new tail livery.

 

[Travelpro72]

Yes something about the flag being a different design. I wonder if the "heatwaves" oh excuse me "swooshes" are still there.

 

[nycbusdriver]

The 330 200 has a new tail livery.

Yeah. The flag's upside down.


[quote post='679158' date='Apr 8 2009, 02:44 PM']So I guess it'll be a guess until someone snaps a picture.[/quote]

With all the artistic, imaginative talent around here, I can't believe someone hasn't already posted their own interpretation of what the livery will look like.