Iran's peaceful intentions

[UAL_TECH]

You, Lord, have laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the works of Your hands."
(Heb 1:10)
"All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being."
(John 1:3)

So who do you say that he is?
You take this verse out of context, Christ (God) was saying his word is eternal and just.

Matthew 5:17-18.
I think you lost sight of what UT was saying, The Old Testament was for a specific generation, time, and place (in general) yet a witness for all.
Our (LORD) made a way so that even the gentile could be reconciled.

Feel free to educate me further! 🙄

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it." John 1:1-5

Local

Thanks! There is nothing I can add to this.
You verbalized my thoughts to a 'T'!
Take Care,
UT

 

[UAL_TECH]

Isn't it funny how so much of what GW Bush (a professed "Christian") does hasn't heeded a word of the New Testament? There are as many bad Christians as there are bad Muslims. Sadly, Bush is one of them...Just as the Imam's supporting jihad are among the "bad" Muslims. Go ahead....flame away.

The inquisition is a painful history for Christians (such as myself) but if you look at history as an aggregate, the Muslims have beat that record ten fold.

B) UT

Hey yall, just think how nice it would be if we were all athiests and said the heck with organized religion!!!!!!!!!!

How did that work out for Russia?
Or is Communism considered a 'religion' more so than 'Capitalism' :blink:
😛 UT

 

[Garfield1966]

well why aren't Russia and China not kicking our selective assses now?Why aren't any other countries testing our mettle?

For the same reason we cannot win in Iraq. Besides, who is going to buy all of Chinas stuff to fund their growth if they beat us up? Why on earth would Russia want to step foot here? Other countries? Like who for example? Are you waiting for Hugo to invade?

Can you think of any empire that has lasted through out the ages? Roman, Greek, British, Turks, Russian .... anyone?

 

[777 fixer]

B) UT
How did that work out for Russia?
Or is Communism considered a 'religion' more so than 'Capitalism' :blink:
😛 UT

Have to agree with UAL Tech on this one. The communists called religion the "opiate" of the people. Yet they managed to kill millions of their own ciitzens.

 

[delldude]

For the same reason we cannot win in Iraq. Why on earth would Russia want to step foot here? Other countries? Like who for example? Are you waiting for Hugo to invade?

Can you think of any empire that has lasted through out the ages? Roman, Greek, British, Turks, Russian .... anyone?

China.....

Besides, who is going to buy all of Chinas stuff to fund their growth if they beat us up?

Its capitalistic growth to fund an army that wants to dominate the world in the long run.

 

[Garfield1966]

China.....
Its capitalistic growth to fund an army that wants to dominate the world in the long run.

I don't think so. As far as I am aware the Chinese have never had protectorates out side of what is currently China. Certainly nothing like the Romans or the British (Where the sun never sets).

I do not think we need to worry about China taking over the world, much less the US. They already own about $250 billion of our Debt. Japan owns over $600 billion It is not in their self interest to see us go down. That would be like you beating the crap out of a house that you own. What would be the point. Your only going to hurt your self. Japn and China and the rest are invested in the US. They want money, not us. Normally when someone makes an "investment" that person/entity expects a return on said investment.

Here is an interesting read on the issue.

US debt

Out of the $8 trillion we are in debt over $2 trillion is held by foreign investors. That's a quarter of our debt. If we go under, we will be taking the rest of the modern world with us with out ever firing a shot.

I think you are underestimating the power of money and over estimating the power of a gun. 100 years ago you might have been right. In todays world, national interest takes a back seat to money. Iran is number 3 in oil reserve.
Oil reserve chart
Do you really think Iran or any of the investors (oil companies) are going to risk billion of dollars? If Iran does something stupid (not saying they wont by the way) the world economy would grind to a halt. Saudi Arabia cannot make up the difference. By the way, Iran may hate us but they are still taking our money. Do you think oil from Iran is not flowing through your engine block? It probably got exported to Canada or Mexico and then ship into the US.

Iran produces 4 million barrels per a day. It's got to go somewhere.

Oil production/export/import chart

IMO, that's why everyone want the Iraq problem to go away and for Iran to just simmer down. No one wants Iran to get the Bomb but no one has a way to prevent it from happening either.

The second anyone drops a bomb (surgical or otherwise) on Iran, the price of oil through out the world will sky rocket to the point that $100 a barrel would look like a fire sale. If you want to cripple the world economy, knock your self out. This country much less the rest of the world cannot afford that kind of bravado.

 

[delldude]

Do you really think Iran or any of the investors (oil companies) are going to risk billion of dollars? If Iran does something stupid (not saying they wont by the way) the world economy would grind to a halt. Saudi Arabia cannot make up the difference. By the way, Iran may hate us but they are still taking our money. Do you think oil from Iran is not flowing through your engine block? It probably got exported to Canada or Mexico and then ship into the US.

Iran produces 4 million barrels per a day. It's got to go somewhere.

All Iran has to do is shut off the US and Japan and China will take it all......hell....Hugo would probably jump in and shut us down too.

Make no mistake...the world is very uneasy about Iminejahd and his regime getting their fingers on the nuclear trigger....first shot will be against Israel and that in itself will destabilize the whole friggin ME and pop the top off oil prices in one fell swoop.The civilized world will not sit idly by without something happening,either overt or covert.

China would like no round eyes in their world.China likes our money so they can buy and build hi-tech weaponry.

 

[UAL_TECH]

I don't think so. As far as I am aware the Chinese have never had protectorates out side of what is currently China. Certainly nothing like the Romans or the British (Where the sun never sets).

I do not think we need to worry about China taking over the world, much less the US. They already own about $250 billion of our Debt. Japan owns over $600 billion It is not in their self interest to see us go down. That would be like you beating the crap out of a house that you own. What would be the point. Your only going to hurt your self. Japn and China and the rest are invested in the US. They want money, not us. Normally when someone makes an "investment" that person/entity expects a return on said investment.

Here is an interesting read on the issue.

US debt

Out of the $8 trillion we are in debt over $2 trillion is held by foreign investors. That's a quarter of our debt. If we go under, we will be taking the rest of the modern world with us with out ever firing a shot.

I think you are underestimating the power of money and over estimating the power of a gun. 100 years ago you might have been right. In todays world, national interest takes a back seat to money. Iran is number 3 in oil reserve.
Oil reserve chart
Do you really think Iran or any of the investors (oil companies) are going to risk billion of dollars? If Iran does something stupid (not saying they wont by the way) the world economy would grind to a halt. Saudi Arabia cannot make up the difference. By the way, Iran may hate us but they are still taking our money. Do you think oil from Iran is not flowing through your engine block? It probably got exported to Canada or Mexico and then ship into the US.

Iran produces 4 million barrels per a day. It's got to go somewhere.

Oil production/export/import chart

IMO, that's why everyone want the Iraq problem to go away and for Iran to just simmer down. No one wants Iran to get the Bomb but no one has a way to prevent it from happening either.

The second anyone drops a bomb (surgical or otherwise) on Iran, the price of oil through out the world will sky rocket to the point that $100 a barrel would look like a fire sale. If you want to cripple the world economy, knock your self out. This country much less the rest of the world cannot afford that kind of bravado.

I think you underestimate the intentions of China, as-well as others. In a 'normally' capitalistic system, CA$H is king, but in a Communistic/Socialistic culture, 'POWER' is the domineering factor. To sacrifice CA$H for POWER would not be unthinkable and may even be strategic.

US fears grow over China military

B) UT

 

[Gilding the Lily]

I think you underestimate the intentions of China, as-well as others. In a 'normally' capitalistic system, CA$H is king, but in a Communistic/Socialistic culture, 'POWER' is the domineering factor. To sacrifice CA$H for POWER would not be unthinkable and may even be strategic.

US fears grow over China military

B) UT

Couple that with the fact that China is becoming much more proficient in investing (both government investing and private). While it still has major stakes in American hedgefunds and PE groups, China is more or less using these companies as a learning tool to gain knowledge for its own investing.

In fact, China has decided to start moving away from it's traditional investment strategy: U.S. Treasury Bonds (war bonds). Now, China's new government-sponsored "investment group" (the State Foreign Exchange Investment Company) is essentially the largest hedge fund in the world.

In short, China won't need to use the U.S. as a financial crutch for much longer.

 

[UAL_TECH]

Couple that with the fact that China is becoming much more proficient in investing (both government investing and private). While it still has major stakes in American hedgefunds and PE groups, China is more or less using these companies as a learning tool to gain knowledge for its own investing.

In fact, China has decided to start moving away from it's traditional investment strategy: U.S. Treasury Bonds (war bonds). Now, China's new government-sponsored "investment group" (the State Foreign Exchange Investment Company) is essentially the largest hedge fund in the world.

In short, China won't need to use the U.S. as a financial crutch for much longer.

Gilding the Lily,

Excellent

US charged CHINA with currency manipulation, but now recant. 😛

US rejects China currency charge

Take Care,
Cuz Pain...B)

 

[local 12 proud]

Lieberman is just talking big to get his name in the papers. It has been pretty much established that the US does not have the military ability to engage in a third conflict. We are not even able to control the two that we have already undertaken.

Every military person I have ever heard speak or read have said that an air strike is worthless unless followed by ground forces. Given that our troops are already having leaves shortened and tours extended we do not have the ability. That combined with the fact that the repair facilities are already over whelmed with work as it is, recruitment standards have been lowered (education and criminal records standards just to mention 2) my guess that all the talk about Iran is just that. Funny part is Iran probably knows this as well which is why they are not worried about the hollow threats leveled by the US.

You dont need boots on the ground to make surgical airstrikes. We're not talking about going in and overthrowing Imanutjob and his regime, we're talking about taking out a few nuke sights with some well placed bombs.

Israel did it with just a few F-16's, in and out before Saddam knew what hit him.

We have this Krazy Kook boxed in on three sides, You underestimate the might of our Armed Forces.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lk5wukNx3A

 

[delldude]

You dont need boots on the ground to make surgical airstrikes. We're not talking about going in and overthrowing Imanutjob and his regime, we're talking about taking out a few nuke sights with some well placed bombs.

Israel did it with just a few F-16's, in and out before Saddam knew what hit him.

We have this Krazy Kook boxed in on three sides, You underestimate the might of our Armed Forces.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lk5wukNx3A

Unequivocable thumbs up Local 12

 

[Garfield1966]

You dont need boots on the ground to make surgical airstrikes. We're not talking about going in and overthrowing Imanutjob and his regime, we're talking about taking out a few nuke sights with some well placed bombs.

Israel did it with just a few F-16's, in and out before Saddam knew what hit him.

We have this Krazy Kook boxed in on three sides, You underestimate the might of our Armed Forces.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lk5wukNx3A

Do you think Iran would just lay there and play dead after we take out a few targets or do you think they will lash out?

What do you think will happen to oil prices? How much do you want to pay for a barrel of oil … $150 … $200 …. $300. What do you think those kind of prices would do to the world economy?

You are also assuming that we will destroy the targets that we are after. My understanding is some of those nuke facilities are way underground. Beyond the capability of bunker buster type weapons.

What happens if they go out and buy a weapon on the open market? Do you think they would hesitate to use it after they were attacked? I cannot help but wonder if the reason they have not attacked is because public opinion would not support the use of a dirty/nuke weapon with out 'justification'. If we were to be stupid enough to attack them, my guess it they could use whatever means at their disposal to retaliate. And remember they only need to be successful one time to create paranoia through out the world. It would not even need to be on US soil.

For every action, there is a reaction. You would do well to remember that when advocating attacks on foreign powers that do not play according to the same rules that we do. Iran is more than willing to sacrifice lives to get their point across. Are we? Are you willing to die? Are you willing to sacrifice your family to prove your point?

As for China, I do not see them launching an attack against the US. They may just write a check and buy us, or they might become financially independent where they find that they no longer need us as consumers and we will just melt away, but I seriously doubt they have any interest in taking over the US. We see how well occupations have gone through out the world. The civil revolts that would take place on the streets would be more than they could deal with just as it is too much for us to deal with in Iraq.

 

[local 12 proud]

Do you think Iran would just lay there and play dead after we take out a few targets or do you think they will lash out?

Sure he may lash out and thats exactly why he needs to be prevented from going atomic. He is already threatening and continues to do so with intent of wiping Israel off the map, and possibly sharing his nuclear ambitions with terrorist in the Islamic neighborhood!

What do you think will happen to oil prices? How much do you want to pay for a barrel of oil … $150 … $200 …. $300. What do you think those kind of prices would do to the world economy?

You 'green' police are the ones preaching 'save the planet, ride a bike'. 😛 Guess we'll have to cross that bridge when we get to it gar!

Let me ask you, what happens if he obtains Nuke capabilities and decides to usher in the hidden Imam?

You are also assuming that we will destroy the targets that we are after. My understanding is some of those nuke facilities are way underground. Beyond the capability of bunker buster type weapons.

Do you know for a fact what our weapon capabilities are?
If not then let the Men who do determine what/where to strike make that conclusion!

What happens if they go out and buy a weapon on the open market? Do you think they would hesitate to use it after they were attacked?

Ya know Gar alot people just like you went to the gas chambers thinking they were getting a free shower!

I cannot help but wonder if the reason they have not attacked is because public opinion would not support the use of a dirty/nuke weapon with out 'justification'.

Yea they're real worried about public opinion, while they preach genocide and in fact carry it out!

If we were to be stupid enough to attack them, my guess it they could use whatever means at their disposal to retaliate. And remember they only need to be successful one time to create paranoia through out the world. It would not even need to be on US soil.

So we should be stupid and ignore his threats while he builds a Nuclear arsenal. The world did that once before and it cost 50 Million lives.

For every action, there is a reaction. You would do well to remember that when advocating attacks on foreign powers that do not play according to the same rules that we do.

and you would do well to remember history and not repeat the same mistakes!

Iran is more than willing to sacrifice lives to get their point across.Are we? Are you willing to die? Are you willing to sacrifice your family to prove your point?

You really are a Puss in Boots huh? <_<

As for China, I do not see them launching an attack against the US. They may just write a check and buy us, or they might become financially independent where they find that they no longer need us as consumers and we will just melt away, but I seriously doubt they have any interest in taking over the US. We see how well occupations have gone through out the world. The civil revolts that would take place on the streets would be more than they could deal with just as it is too much for us to deal with in Iraq.

I think China needs to be watched very closely, they are a building huge arsenals at break neck speed. You can bet Taiwan will be the first to fall!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...7061301969.html

 

[Garfield1966]

It does not appear to be a question of if but rather when. The nuke cat is out of the bag and there is not putting it back. If Iran does not make it one their own they will buy it on the black market.

As for the green police, not sure what you are talking about but anyone with a grasp on the situation realizes that any transition cannot be instantaneous. Oil at $200 plus per a barrel would be catastrophic for this country along with the rest of the world.

When Iran gets the nuke, it will be an issue that has to be dealt with very carefully. War will not work. It has not worked in Iraq and it will not work in Iran. I have heard from various sources that there is a fairly large number of Iranians (mostly the younger generation) who are very displeased with their current representation in government. I believe that the best we can do is to encourage and support them the best we can. Any lasting change in Iran Or any country for that matter must come from with in. Any out side force will be resisted.

No I do not know exactly what our capabilities are. Given the fact that we live in a some what free society most I have heard speak on the issue seem to agree that the capability you hope is there is not. Trust the military command to make a wise decision? Really?

It would seem that public opinion may be stronger that you give it credit for. When nutjob made the comments, the outcry was quite loud. His power base has been eroding ever since. There was an article a few weeks ago in Newsweek that indicated he does not have the stature. Do you know exactly why that is? Or am I the only one who cannot make an educated guess?

It's a very simple question that you failed to answer. The radicals over there had already clearly indicated that they are willing to sacrifice their lives. It is my opinion that they are being held back by the more sane parts of their government. Should an attack on their land happen, it is my belief that the hold on the radicals will be lost and they will be set free to do as they wish. So, what are you willing to sacrifice to prove your point?