Iraq - what do we do now?

[Flying Titan]

I - H-A-V-E - N-O - P-L-A-N - E-X-C-E-P-T - T-O - G-I-V-E - O-U-R - T-R-O-O-P-S - T-H-E - M-E-A-N-S - N-E-C-E-S-S-A-R-Y - T-O - D-E-F-E-A-T - T-H-E - E-N-E-M-Y!

Perhaps I should be more specific...and I'll be glad to do that without shouting or name-calling.

What means, specifically, do you envision are necessary?

What tactics, specifically, do you believe would be most appropriate?

That's what this entire thread is supposed to be about. Sadly, you seem all too proud to say you have no clue how to answer the question with anything specific.

 

[Gilding the Lily]

Oh really, what about those reporters that have taken a bullet while riding shotgun in a patrol, or the ones injured by IED's? Kinda hard to get hit from your cozy hotel room, or the 'Green Zone' eh?

Did you forget which side of the argument you are on??? You are so busy arguing that you fail to see that you are contradicting yourself.

Earlier you posted: "I'm afraid the news media are hurting our chances. They are dwelling upon the mistakes" [and] not balancing this bad news with the good news.

Now you are saying that reporters are being shot and injured by IED's. I don't know about you, but being shot is not good news. That doesn't sound like progress to me... it sounds like reporters are reporting what they are seeing: DEATH AND DESTRUCTION.

It is not "undue negative reporting"... granted, it is negative reporting, but when tens of Iraqis are being murdered everyday, that negative reporting is not undue. It is negative; but it is the truth.

If you don't believe the media; believe a republican who has been to Iraq 15 times since the overthrow of Hussein. On the Situation Room (Nov. 22, 2006) Christopher Shays, head of the Armed Forces Committee, said: "If they keep doing what they're doing and we fail, it'll be hell in the Middle East."

 

[local 12 proud]

Perhaps I should be more specific...and I'll be glad to do that without shouting or name-calling.

Who's shouting? I just broke it down in drawn out easy to read words for ya! 😀

What means, specifically, do you envision are necessary?

What tactics, specifically, do you believe would be most appropriate?

I believe in using brute force to overcome your opponent, if some one kicks me in the nuts I go for the throat. Perhaps we need to enlist more troops, perhaps we need to carpet bomb, Im not In Iraq as a military field commander with first hand knowledge of the needs to succeed and neither are you.

That's what this entire thread is supposed to be about. Sadly, you seem all too proud to say you have no clue how to answer the question with anything specific.

Too Proud? No Im just not some monday morning quarterback who pretends, or is so arrogant to suggest I have a better plan than those who are in command.

Perhaps you, ch. 12, and puss-n-boots should enlist or better yet apply to West Point since you have it all figured out.

"It is fatal to enter a war without the will to win it."
~ General Douglas MacArthur

 

[local 12 proud]

Did you forget which side of the argument you are on??? You are so busy arguing that you fail to see that you are contradicting yourself.

Earlier you posted: "I'm afraid the news media are hurting our chances. They are dwelling upon the mistakes" [and] not balancing this bad news with the good news.

Now you are saying that reporters are being shot and injured by IED's. I don't know about you, but being shot is not good news. That doesn't sound like progress to me... it sounds like reporters are reporting what they are seeing: DEATH AND DESTRUCTION.

It is not "undue negative reporting"... granted, it is negative reporting, but when tens of Iraqis are being murdered everyday, that negative reporting is not undue. It is negative; but it is the truth.

If you don't believe the media; believe a republican who has been to Iraq 15 times since the overthrow of Hussein. On the Situation Room (Nov. 22, 2006) Christopher Shays, head of the Armed Forces Committee, said: "If they keep doing what they're doing and we fail, it'll be hell in the Middle East."

Typical liberal spin and twist of my words, my point was/is that your liberal media shows only the negative aspects and nothing positive that occurs.

Christopher Shays, head of the Armed Forces Committee, said: "If they keep doing what they're doing and we fail, it'll be hell in the Middle East."

Well duh...Its already hell in the middle east in case you have'nt noticed chris, and yea if we Fail the sh!t will really hit the fan.

Boy Im glad that genius along with you were astute enough to point that out.

 

[delldude]

Delldude -
My plan has been posted in this thread several times.

With each passing day it's more evident that you and the other right wing, neo-con types don't have a plan. Sadly for our country, it's clear that Bush doesn't have one either.

You can speculate all you want and feel good about it but your plan or mine is nothing more than a pipe dream,and you sit there and make crude attempts at assassination as if it really matters for our country.Dude,its out of our hands totally.So you go ahead and swoon over my post and acuse me of not having a plan.

Fools negotiate with Iran and Syria.Stand up to them and look them in the eye here and now....including the Iraq al Qeda...because they respect strength and resolve.Look at us now...the laughing stock of the world over all the pissing and moaning from the liberals and their unhappiness with whats going on over there.Running a war and being politically correct....Vietnam wasn't a lesson on how to prosecute a war??
We sit atop the great precipice and the world now laughs at the Monkeys.....fools you are liberals...

 

[Ch. 12]

I believe in using brute force to overcome your opponent, if some one kicks me in the nuts I go for the throat.

How about this one...how about YOU kicked somebody in the nuts first. And then you kicked everyone else's nuts. And nobody has your back b/c you told them all to go away b/c you could handle this fight on your own and in your own way. That is a better analogy to our situation in Iraq.

As far as your hop-scotching around a plan and claiming that it isn't fair that we ask for a real plan (keep fighten' 'em is a position but it sure as hell isn't a plan), why then was it fair of you to DEMAND one of all of us and then you run with your tail between your legs when we give our ideas (and as claimed before...they are all just ideas b/c NOBODY knows exactly what will work there) and ask for yours. Seems a little hypocritical to me. So what are your rational ideas on how to go about winning in Iraq. Keep in mind that it isn't a utopia over there right now, there is an internal struggle between at least three factions that isn't going to simply go away by us hammering all three of them. Keep in mind that the rest of the world is NOT with us and that we continue to shelter ourselves. Keep in mind that many other countries including Russia are gaining confidence and power b/c their dislike for us is growing by the day. So how do you plan to tackle this stuff. No positions like (I don't like muslims) but concrete tactics/strategies... Where are they? The only one I have seen you propose is to blanket the region in pigs blood. That is fine if we are in a holy war but then they might retaliate with marrying gays all across the US Oh! The HORROR!

Piss or get off the pot. We have all at least tried. You have cowered in the corner hoping it will all go away. It won't. But it makes sense why you like Bush so much b/c you both approach dilemas in the same way.

Let me ask you...if a company is losing boatloads of cash, is it a PLAN to say that they need to get more cash? No...that is a position. A PLAN would be to sell of some assets, seek investors, cut redundant plants, seek new markets, etc. WHAT IS YOUR PLAN?! You DEMANDED one of all of us, did you not?

 

[delldude]

First of all...eternal vigilance prevents one from being kicked in the Kayoons....
So gutting the Patriot Act and hamstringing everything acomplished under Bush in the name of personal privacy is warranted? Oh,I see...until theres a nuke going off above a city near you....we don't need this until it happens again.

No one wants to confront the Islamo-facists...it'll go away if you do as they want you...ask any Spaniard

Pure and simple...we stand up to Iran,Syria,Korea and Pakistan and stop the bullcrap now and forever.Go in ,dismantle their military structure whether they like it or not and they can live like post war Japan.And yes Ginny,we will go it alone 😉

Of course you can start a dialog and end up at the laugh factory slewing epithets

End the outside under the table assistance from Iran,Syria and China....thats the only way to stop the insurgents from attempting to profit through internal strife and civil war.Who the heck do you think is inciting these things in Iraq?

Have a nice weekend....got to go see Santa. 😉

 

[KCFlyer]

First of all...eternal vigilance prevents one from being kicked in the Kayoons....
So gutting the Patriot Act and hamstringing everything acomplished under Bush in the name of personal privacy is warranted? Oh,I see...until theres a nuke going off above a city near you....we don't need this until it happens again.

No one wants to confront the Islamo-facists...it'll go away if you do as they want you...ask any Spaniard

Pure and simple...we stand up to Iran,Syria,Korea and Pakistan and stop the bullcrap now and forever.Go in ,dismantle their military structure whether they like it or not and they can live like post war Japan.And yes Ginny,we will go it alone 😉

Of course you can start a dialog and end up at the laugh factory slewing epithets

End the outside under the table assistance from Iran,Syria and China....thats the only way to stop the insurgents from attempting to profit through internal strife and civil war.Who the heck do you think is inciting these things in Iraq?

Have a nice weekend....got to go see Santa. 😉

Do you honestly believe that we are safe from another terrorist attack on American soil because we are fighting them "over there"? I mean...the US doesn't have ALL of their troops in Iraq - what makes you think ALL the terrorists are drawn the to front lines in Iraq? YOu don't think it's possible that while we're battling away "over there" (side note...I wonder how the Iraqi's - whose country wasn't number one on the terrorist harboring list - feels about the war being waged on THEIR soil??) that there aren't some cells that are far far away from the front lines of Iraq who are planning the next big attack on the US???

 

[Flying Titan]

Who's shouting? I just broke it down in drawn out easy to read words for ya! 😀

You are. That's what all-caps means. With more than 2,500 posts, one would think you would know that.

I believe in using brute force to overcome your opponent, if some one kicks me in the nuts I go for the throat. Perhaps we need to enlist more troops, perhaps we need to carpet bomb, Im not In Iraq as a military field commander with first hand knowledge of the needs to succeed and neither are you.

Sounds like you're trying to subscribe to the Powell doctrine, which worked so well during the Gulf War (and which I agree with fully). Sadly, Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney & Co. flatly rejected this doctrine and - tactically - that's part of why the Iraq war has turned out to be such a mess. Given what you said above about going for the throat - do you support doubling or tripling our presence in Iraq. If so, what should the new troops' focus be? Killing Sunnis? Killing Sh'ias? Staying neutral until the Iraqis work it out for themselves? Oh that's right, you're not capable of having an opinion on these matters...

Too Proud? No Im just not some monday morning quarterback who pretends, or is so arrogant to suggest I have a better plan than those who are in command.

...because Local 12 says an American citizen having an opinion on this mess would be too "arrogant."

Perhaps you, ch. 12, and puss-n-boots should enlist or better yet apply to West Point since you have it all figured out.

BTW...you have no idea what my - or my family's - military backgrund is. Since this is a board dealing with aviation I would imagine many of the people here have served in the military. Don't be so foolish as to assume you know about me.

 

[Garfield1966]

First of all...eternal vigilance prevents one from being kicked in the Kayoons....
So gutting the Patriot Act and hamstringing everything acomplished under Bush in the name of personal privacy is warranted? Oh,I see...until theres a nuke going off above a city near you....we don't need this until it happens again.

No one wants to confront the Islamo-facists...it'll go away if you do as they want you...ask any Spaniard

Pure and simple...we stand up to Iran,Syria,Korea and Pakistan and stop the bullcrap now and forever.Go in ,dismantle their military structure whether they like it or not and they can live like post war Japan.And yes Ginny,we will go it alone 😉

Of course you can start a dialog and end up at the laugh factory slewing epithets

End the outside under the table assistance from Iran,Syria and China....thats the only way to stop the insurgents from attempting to profit through internal strife and civil war.Who the heck do you think is inciting these things in Iraq?

Have a nice weekend....got to go see Santa. 😉

You are a laugh a minute. You really think China is going to sit idle while we conduct an all out war with Korea and then walk right in and dismantle their military? You think we can conduct a war with Iran and dismantle their military? By the way, these invasions that you are encouraging, are they at the same time or one after the other? Is this before or after we make Iraq a bastion of democracy?

 

[delldude]

You are a laugh a minute. Me? I do not suffer from spousal induced religous hypocrisy

You really think China is going to sit idle while we conduct an all out war with Korea and then walk right in and dismantle their military? no,they will close all the Wal-Marts in retaliation

You think we can conduct a war with Iran and dismantle their military? you afraid of Iran already?

By the way, these invasions that you are encouraging, are they at the same time or one after the other?
every other day
Is this before or after we make Iraq a bastion of democracy?
You sound afraid

 

[local 12 proud]

name='Ch. 12' date='Dec 9 2006, 10:35 AM' post='436704']
How about this one...how about YOU kicked somebody in the nuts first. And then you kicked everyone else's nuts. And nobody has your back b/c you told them all to go away b/c you could handle this fight on your own and in your own way. That is a better analogy to our situation in Iraq.

do you wait till your attacker breaks down the door and subdues you? Its a little late then would'nt you say? I don't recall us telling 'them all' to go away perhaps you can find a link to back up that rediculous statement.

As far as your hop-scotching around a plan and claiming that it isn't fair that we ask for a real plan (keep fighten' 'em is a position but it sure as hell isn't a plan), why then was it fair of you to DEMAND one of all of us and then you run with your tail between your legs when we give our ideas (and as claimed before...they are all just ideas b/c NOBODY knows exactly what will work there) and ask for yours. Seems a little hypocritical to me.

First, I never ran anywhere your the one who whines and gets your panties all twisted like some sniveling little spoiled girl when the debate is'nt going your way, In fact I remember in one of your post you threatend to 'take your ball and go home' so to speak because the debate did'nt suit you.

Second, I never DEMANDED a plan from you, I said 'The Democrats' were demanding change without proposing a vialbe plan of their own, You offered up your own Ideas. BTW that Baker plan is a disaster waiting to happen, Can you say 1939 Czechoslovakia?

The only one I have seen you propose is to blanket the region in pigs blood.

I like that for starters

That is fine if we are in a holy war but then they might retaliate with marrying gays all across the US Oh! The HORROR!

You have some kind of GAY fetish? don't hide the truth you can come out anytime.

Piss or get off the pot. We have all at least tried. You have cowered in the corner hoping it will all go away. It won't. But it makes sense why you like Bush so much b/c you both approach dilemas in the same way.

One thing I've never done is cower from a fight, you start something with me and you can bet I will finish it.
I don't run from aggression polly, I meet it head on. Can't say the same for you yellow bellied cowards who think the way to peace with terrorist is dialogue and appeasement. Guess what??? you bafoons are the laughing stock of the whole middle east and to our allies alike.

Let me ask you...if a company is losing boatloads of cash, is it a PLAN to say that they need to get more cash? No...that is a position. A PLAN would be to sell of some assets, seek investors, cut redundant plants, seek new markets, etc. WHAT IS YOUR PLAN?! You DEMANDED one of all of us, did you not?

War is Ugly, it was never meant to be approached like running a buisness you mental giant.

Heres the plan einstien, we take off the gloves and fight this war like it needs to be fought. kick the doors down, round up the insurgents and if they resist we shoot them between the eyes. We tell Syria and Iran if they don't get out of this war and quit meddling in Iraqs affairs were coming to kick their doors down too. We have the means and the might and just maybe if we would show some courage the rest of the world would take us seriously.

 

[Gilding the Lily]

Whatever plan the United States chooses to act upon, I hope we act soon. The country is sliding towards partition. If you travel to the Kurdish-inhabited area of Iraq, they will stamp your passport with a stamp that says "Kurdistan." And if you travel south towards Baghdad, you need a visa to "get into Iraq."

Many of the Sunni-Shia mixed communities are becoming un-mixed. There are estimates that suggest that 1 million Sunni refugees have left their communities.

Can anyone say "Balkanization"?

 

[delldude]

Whatever plan the United States chooses to act upon, I hope we act soon. The country is sliding towards partition. If you travel to the Kurdish-inhabited area of Iraq, they will stamp your passport with a stamp that says "Kurdistan." And if you travel south towards Baghdad, you need a visa to "get into Iraq."

Many of the Sunni-Shia mixed communities are becoming un-mixed. There are estimates that suggest that 1 million Sunni refugees have left their communities.

Can anyone say "Balkanization"?

Whether or not you,I or anyone has what we percieve to be a plan....like it or not...it doesn't mean dick.
Wait a minute....Cheney's on the phone...he likes CH 12's plan.
IF and its a negative IF....they get the sects to come to some type of separate statehood in a country where their combined existance comes together..it could work....but I have serious doubts as to that.

Many of the Sunni-Shia mixed communities are becoming un-mixed.

My goodness,sounds much like a country that got its start back in the late 1700's 😱

 

[KCFlyer]

The country is sliding towards partition.

Whadaya know...if it gets there, then Bush's plan will be fulfilled...Iraq will be just like the US, except you don't need passports to go from "red states" to "blue states".