McCain vs Romney

Leto2

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Oct 6, 2006
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Hey Everyone,

Next Tuesday is a big vote. 20+ states will hold primaries and caucuses which may determine who gets the Republican nomination for President. It has basically come down to a race between McCain and Romney. While McCain is a war hero and a respectable person, I believe that Romney will do a much better job leading the country. I've put together a list of issues contrasting Romney and McCain. I believe that everything here is accurate (some of it, of course, is opinion), and I've tried to include references when possible. I think that any conservative that gives this race serious thought will vote for Romney.



*** ENDORSEMENTS ********************
- Both candidates have received many endorsements, about the same amounts from Congressmen. (http://www.rollcall.com/politics/endorsements.html) However, many of McCain's endorsements come from people/groups who aren't in line with Republican conservative principles, for example, The New York Times and Gov. Schwarzenegger.

- Romney, on the other hand, has the votes of Sean Hanity, Hugh Hewitt, and Laura Ingraham. Every conservative talk show host I've listened to, except Michael Medved, thinks that McCain is too liberal to be the Republican nominee.


*** SPONSORED LEGISLATION ********************
-McCain has teamed up with Democrats to sponsor liberal legislation. Here is a quote from the New York Times' article in which they endorsed him:
"He has been a staunch advocate of campaign finance reform, working with Senator Russ Feingold, among the most liberal of Democrats, on groundbreaking legislation, just as he worked with Senator Edward Kennedy on immigration reform."
- McCain Feingold - basically inhibits free speech by limiting campaign donations.
- McCain Kennedy - this was the big illegal immigrant amnesty bill that was ultimately blocked thanks to a flood of calls to the Senate by conservative voters.
- McCain Lieberman - a huge climate-control initiative that would cost the average household about $950/year in 2010 and increase after that. (http://www.accf.org/pdf/GHGreports/US-2-page.PDF)
- The "McCain people" also approached John Kerry to see if McCain could be his running mate in 2004 against GWB/Cheney. (http://mydd.com/story/2007/4/3/11936/97033)


* ENVIRONMENT ********************
- McCain is definitely against mainstream Republicans on climate issues. He teamed with Senator Lieberman to sponsor the McCain/Lieberman Climate Bill. Had it passed, it would have cost taxpayers about $114 billion per year by 2010 increasing to over $200 billion per year by 2020. It would have also cost hundreds of thousands of jobs and inhibited business growth. (http://www.accf.org/pdf/GHGreports/US-2-page.PDF)
- Here's what Romney says about the environment: "Is global warming an issue for the world? Absolutely. Is it something we can deal with by becoming energy independent and energy secure? We sure can. At the same time, we call it global warming, not America warming. So let's not put a burden on us alone and have the rest of the world skate by without having to participate in this effort. It's a global effort, but our independence is something we can do unilaterally." -2007 Des Moines Register Republican Debate


*** SECURITY ********************
- Security is where McCain claims to have the biggest advantage over Romney. McCain is rightfully credited with pushing the troop surge which has turned around the situation in Iraq. I have also been impressed that while many Republican Senators turned their backs on Bush when Iraq was ugly, McCain did not. While McCain's military experience may help him be a better leader, I don't think that it translates to being a better Commander In Chief than Romney.
- McCain supported amnesty for illegal immigrants BEFORE building a fence and securing the border. We know how easy it is for immigrants to cross the border, what stops Al Qaeda from doing so? McCain is weak on border security.
- McCain supports closing the Guantanamo Bay prison. This would lead to the release of many terrorist prisoners.
- Romney is opposed to both amnesty and closing Guantanamo Bay.


*** ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION ********************
- McCain teamed up with Kennedy to support the Immigration Reform bill which would have essentially given amnesty to illigal aliens, validating their illegal entry into the country. It also would have done little to close the border.
- This is what Romney says about amnesty at the January 30th CNN Debate:
"My plan is this, which is for those that have come here illegally and are here illegally today, no amnesty.

"Now, how do people return home? Under the ideal setting, at least in my view, you say to those who have just come in recently, we're going to send you back home immediately, we're not going to let you stay here. You just go back home.
"For those that have been here, let's say, five years, and have kids in school, you allow kids to complete the school year, you allow people to make their arrangements, and allow them to return back home.
"Those that have been here a long time, with kids that have responsibilities here and so forth, you let stay enough time to organize their affairs and go home.
"But the key is this: These individuals are free to get in line with everyone else that wants to become a permanent resident or citizen. But no special pathway, no special deal that says because you're here illegally, you get to stay here for the rest of your life."

- Sounds like a good solution to me. Why has no one else proposed this?


*** FLIP-FLOPPING ********************
- More than anything else, Romney has been criticized for his "flip-flopping". Many of the issues that people accuse Romney of flip-flopping on are not really based on actual legislation he voted on or pushed. However, McCain has a very defined record, and he has flip-flopped against many things he's voted on or even sponsored:
- Even in the midst the heated debate over the McCain-Kennedy Immigration bill, McCain wanted to give amnesty before closing the border. Now that he wants the Republican ticket, he has "learned his lesson" and wants to close the border first.

- McCain voted against Bush's tax cuts twice (2001, 2003) and then voted for them.

- McCain's people approached John Kerry to see if McCain could be Kerry's running mate in the 2004 election, on the Democratic ticket. Now he wants the Republican ticket?


*** TAXES ********************
- When Romney entered office in Massachusetts, there was a $3 billion state deficit. During his term he did not raise taxes. He did raise some government fees amounting to about $250 million. He gives two reasons for this: (1) the deficit was huge and (2) many of the fees had not been raised in 20 years.
- He has promised to reduce corporate taxes, which are among the highest in the world (http://www.mittromney.com/Issues/global-economic-competition), in order to increase our global competitiveness. He is very pro-business, being an excellent businessman himself. He also wants to make the Bush tax cuts permanent.
- McCain was one of two Republicans to vote against Bush's tax cuts, right after Bush got into office (he later voted for them). At the time he said that the reason he voted against them was that they went to the rich (this reminds me of a candidate that just dropped out, John Edwards), but now he says that he voted against them because he wanted to control spending first.


*** SPENDING ********************
- As far as I know, McCain should be given credit for not pushing earmarks or pork-barrel spending. It's his McCain-Lieberman climate bill that went too far: costs to Americans would have been around $100 billion by 2010 had it passed.

- Romney wants to "eliminate cumbersome and unnecessary regulations and bureaucracies that hinder economic growth and job creation." His ability to reduce waste is one of the first things that caught my attention. He turned Massachusetts' $3billion deficit into a surplus and made the Salt Lake City Olympics profitable (which was in a large deficit), no small feat. Before politics, he founded Bain Capital. Bain Capital buys companies, makes them profitable, then sells them. He knows how to cut excessive spending and make organizations more efficient. He will do this (to some degree) for the federal government bureaucracy.
- Go to this link and listen to the interview (don't just read the article).
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...toryId=18159620
Note how after Robert Seigel, a classic NPR liberal, presses Romney for more detail, Romey quotes the numbers to back up his plan.





*** HEALTH CARE ********************

- Romney passed some major health care reform while he was governor of Massachusetts. While I'm a bit wary of health care reform, I think that Romney's wasn't too bad. Here's what Romney said about his reform during the January 30th CNN Debate:

"I got health insurance for all our citizens. We had 460,000 people without insurance. We got 300 of them -- 300,000 of them signed up for insurance now. I'm proud of what we accomplished.

"The bill that I submitted to the legislature didn't cost $1 more than what we were already spending. However, the legislature and now the new Democratic governor have added some bells and whistles, and they're willing to pay for them.

"I wouldn't do that if I were governor. I would veto the items they put in place there, but they're entitled to make changes if they want to.

"They're still running a balanced budget. I wouldn't have added the money they did. And by the way, no debt was left. I left a rainy day fund of over $2 billion."

- Romney has said that he will leave it up to states to pass reform; what works for Massachusetts may not work for Idaho or Florida.




*** GAY MARRIAGE ********************
- Romney is an example of a great family man. While governor, he pushed to get a vote to protect marriage. This is from the Boston Globe on Nov. 20, 2006:

"Governor Mitt Romney said yesterday that he would ask the Supreme Judicial Court to override the Legislature and let voters decide whether to ban same-sex marriage, telling a boisterous crowd of several thousand at a State House rally that lawmakers are violating the state constitution by refusing to act on the proposal.

"Conservative and religious groups gathered a record 170,000 signatures on a petition to put the proposed ban on same-sex marriages on the 2008 ballot, but the measure also requires the support of at least 50 legislators in two consecutive sessions to qualify for a statewide referendum…"

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachus..._marriage_vote/

- McCain voted AGAINST the Marriage Protection Amendment, which actually surprised me at the time, but doesn't surprise me now that I know how many times he's opposed conservative principles.





*** MISCELLANEOUS ********************

- "Last night McCain, who is the putative frontrunner, resorted to a barrage of personal assaults on Romney that reflect more on the man making them than the target of the attacks. McCain now has a habit of describing Romney as a "manager for profit" and someone who has "laid-off" people, implying that Romney is both unpatriotic and uncaring. Moreover, he complains that Romney is using his "millions" or "fortune" to underwrite his campaign. This is a crass appeal to class warfare. McCain is extremely wealthy through marriage. Romney has never denigrated McCain for his wealth or the manner in which he acquired it. Evidently Romney's character doesn't let him to cross certain boundaries of decorum and decency, but McCain's does. And what of managing for profit? When did free enterprise become evil? This is liberal pablum which, once again, could have been uttered by Hillary Clinton." (From an excellent article by Mark Levin: http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NDEzM...WNkMWQ1NjI4MGI)

- Even beyond taxes and spending, who is the most qualified to run the nation's largest economy?

- Do we want a Washington new-comer that can clean up or someone who has been entrenched in Washington ways for decades?







**************************************

Overall, I think the choice should be clear for conservatives. Mitt Romney is the only man remaining in the race that's conservative across the board (Fred Thompson was also conservative across the board, but he's out). Romney is a man of integrity that has the experience necessary to make our government better.



I hope that you will all get out and vote for Romney this Tuesday.



Sincerely,

-leto2
 
leto 2,

Jesus, Where should I start ?

First Off, I live 10 miles from the Mass. border.
Let me tell you, that Romney EARNED every "flip flop" charge...................EVERY ONE.

Using a "shill" like Shaun Hannity for a Romney endorsement, effects Romney, more than you know,................for the WORSE.

As you were "touting" names from FOX NEWS NETWORK(Fair and Balanced "MY A$$") It appears that you left out (SKANKY) ANN COULTER :down:


AH, but it does'nt mean a thing, because of GOOD OL' MIKE HUCKLEBERRY.
"Huck" is sticking around long enough to suck conservastive votes AWAY from Romney :shock: :shock:


Think our DEAR FRIEND...JACK ABRAMOFF :ninja: would be "in the can" if McCain/Feingold was'nt around? (Meaning "JACK" was forced to take it to the "next level") "Poor JACK" :down: :down:
 
JMHO,

It is still looking like an 'against' vote for me.
Not voting for the best candidate but voting against the worst candidate.
However, given our choices in our two party system, it looks like another Alfred E. Newman write in vote.

Good Luck to US all :up:

B) UT
 
*** GAY MARRIAGE ********************
- Romney is an example of a great family man. While governor, he pushed to get a vote to protect marriage. This is from the Boston Globe on Nov. 20, 2006:

"Governor Mitt Romney said yesterday that he would ask the Supreme Judicial Court to override the Legislature and let voters decide whether to ban same-sex marriage, telling a boisterous crowd of several thousand at a State House rally that lawmakers are violating the state constitution by refusing to act on the proposal.

"Conservative and religious groups gathered a record 170,000 signatures on a petition to put the proposed ban on same-sex marriages on the 2008 ballot, but the measure also requires the support of at least 50 legislators in two consecutive sessions to qualify for a statewide referendum…"

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachus..._marriage_vote/

- McCain voted AGAINST the Marriage Protection Amendment, which actually surprised me at the time, but doesn't surprise me now that I know how many times he's opposed conservative principles.


Sincerely,

-leto2


Leto,

Actually, that was the MORE CONSERVATIVE thing to do. Most traditional conservatives (Non-bush style) are federalists (i.e. proponents of state's rights). Marriage is governed by State Law... if we make an amendment in the Constitution, we will effectively strip the State's of their power to regulate marriage as they see fit. Just because liberals use the same argument, doesn't mean it is not conservative. What happened to the days when conservatives used to propose less federal government?

Also, in the analysis, you forgot to mention who has better hair.
 
Garfield -- If every Dem hopes I am right, then why did the NY Times, LA Times, and several other liberal newspapers endorse McCain? Every Dem wants McCain to win for two reasons: 1. If he ultimately won the general election they wouldn't mind so much, and 2. He will get creamed once the mass media turns on him.

Guilding -- Since the courts are the ones allowing gay marriage in the name of free speech, it can only be stopped at the state level through state constitutional amendments. But what happens once someone takes it to a federal court? Then we need a US Constitution amendment. McCain can claim federalism for rejecting it, but I think that's a cop-out. Can abortion be stopped at the state level? To some degree yes, but ultimately no. Same goes for gay marriage.

UAL_Tech -- The only way to prevent McCain is to vote for Mitt. I understand that many people would rather have Thompson or even Huckabee, but that is no longer an option.

NewHampshire -- As I pointed out, McCain is a flip-flopper to. Sean Hannity's endorsement will do no worse for Romney than the liberal NY Times did for McCain.
 
Leto,

Every Dem hopes you are right and that Romney wins. What does that tell you?


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Got me a bit puzzled about that statement...Garfield !

McCain wanting to Keep EL-CHIMPO's Iraq policy going...........(perhaps)...Even LONGER, will be VERY easy to campaign against !


Again, I'm guessing you've FORGOTTEN the message sent by the country, with regard to the 2006 Congressional Elections, (which was...................OUT of IRAQ...."NOW" ) !!!!!


OR was it...MULTI $Billions spent on Iraq, while the US economy is DEEP into the CRAPPER !!
 
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Got me a bit puzzled about that statement...Garfield !

McCain wanting to Keep EL-CHIMPO's Iraq policy going...........(perhaps)...Even LONGER, will be VERY easy to campaign against !


Again, I'm guessing you've FORGOTTEN the message sent by the country, with regard to the 2006 Congressional Elections, (which was...................OUT of IRAQ...."NOW" ) !!!!!


OR was it...MULTI $Billions spent on Iraq, while the US economy is DEEP into the CRAPPER !!


Bear, I'm talking about the repub nomination not the General election. If Romney gets the Repub nomination, any Dem can win the POTUS as Romney would not have a chance in hell. McCain is the only viable option the Repubs have to get in the White House. The more folks who think like Leto, the easier it is for the Dems to walk in the front door.

I believe the people who 'think' like Limbaugh and Coulter are the minority. McCain could attract far more from the center (Dem, Indi and Reupub) than Romney could ever hope to. If Obama gets the Nomination, Romney would get trampled.
 
Guilding -- Since the courts are the ones allowing gay marriage in the name of free speech, it can only be stopped at the state level through state constitutional amendments. But what happens once someone takes it to a federal court? Then we need a US Constitution amendment. McCain can claim federalism for rejecting it, but I think that's a cop-out. Can abortion be stopped at the state level? To some degree yes, but ultimately no. Same goes for gay marriage.


?????????

Free speech???????? Gay marriage????????? Maybe you were looking for civil rights and equal protection under the laws.?????

Federal courts are allowed to analyze state laws in accordance with the Constitution bud. There are other ways to prevent gay marriage; a constitutional amendment is not the best way. It is the states' issue. If we keep giving state's power to the fed, then what is the point of a state? It is a union; nothing more... when it starts becoming more than an union, then our Constitution is worthless at that point.
 
?????????

Free speech???????? Gay marriage????????? Maybe you were looking for civil rights and equal protection under the laws.?????

Federal courts are allowed to analyze state laws in accordance with the Constitution bud. There are other ways to prevent gay marriage; a constitutional amendment is not the best way. It is the states' issue. If we keep giving state's power to the fed, then what is the point of a state? It is a union; nothing more... when it starts becoming more than an union, then our Constitution is worthless at that point.


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Most of this "acrimony" would never have happened, if Lincoln had'nt got "the bright/FAILED Idea"
of Reconstruction :down: :down: