Respect doesn't pay my mortgage, I dont live for that. Pay is what will make or break me. Isn't respect earned, not just given? If there is not an article or letter of agreement in my contract specific to respect. I really cannot be bothered. To bad these f/as were not more involved in trying to solve the problems rather than creating bigger ones.wrx said:Have fun flying Mikey, I will be on that sick listcome holiday time. I have spoke to hundreds of f/a's who will be out sick and that's just at my base. AA doesn't treat us with respect, so why should we give it back to them? Work on Turkey Day, Christmas or New Years with no holiday pay? Yeah right.
It's time AA gets a little of their own medicine!!
It's Going To Be A Bumpy Ride
- Thread starter Flyboy4u
- Start date
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silverbirdFLL
Member
First off,to Mikey,I hope when you say that you are not going to be calling in sick that you will actually call in sick if you are in your opinon or that of your Dr. truely are sick. If your sick and it's Dec.24 well then guess what your sick and you need and I am sure you would call in SK.
Second,to Opperations,I have done a walk a mile in Crew Sked and had the pleasure of spending a day with Myonna Link then the RDU base planner durring a monthly bid run way back in 1991. Both experiances added to my strong belief that knowlege is prower (spelling can't hurt either but hey I hope speel ck will work). I know a sked/tracker's job can be and often is hectic and to say the leaste tense and frustrating at times. If you are able too and this goes for any other AA employees on this board to try and do a walk a mile with a flight attendant and work a full 3 day double under 9hr l/o 12 to 14 hr on-duty trip. Possibly you too will see that knowlege is power and can come away with atleaste the understanding of what "our side of the story" is based on. We don't make this cr@p up. It is in balck and white every month for one to see.
I'll be the first to agree we have our share of big mouths and loud talkers however we are corps of professionals that have not just endured apathetic management and below professional Union leadership but a once very PROUD f/a corps has had to (along with our pilot brothers & sisters) pay the ultimate price in this war by being the first blood spilled. That I can not express enough for it is that event of 9/11/2001 that has left it's mark permantly I am afraid on us and changed this profession forever. For those who say to us "stop your bitching" or "...don't like it then quiet." maybe you should either take a step back and look at the past 2yrs and the current BIG picture and answer weather YOU could just quit or not have SOME grounds to "bich". I for one can't just quit and yes I do bich from time to time. I biched before 9/11 but the thought of quiting a profession and industry I have wanted to be in since I was a little kid running around the terminal of the OLD Willame B Hartsfield Atlanta Int'l Airport was virtually unthinkable.
If I am sick I will not fly,PERIOD!!
However some of the best holidays I have spent aere on l/o's with crew members I hardly knew. Life is like a peace of checked luggage, ya never know if your gonna get it.-
Peace
silverbirdFLL
Second,to Opperations,I have done a walk a mile in Crew Sked and had the pleasure of spending a day with Myonna Link then the RDU base planner durring a monthly bid run way back in 1991. Both experiances added to my strong belief that knowlege is prower (spelling can't hurt either but hey I hope speel ck will work). I know a sked/tracker's job can be and often is hectic and to say the leaste tense and frustrating at times. If you are able too and this goes for any other AA employees on this board to try and do a walk a mile with a flight attendant and work a full 3 day double under 9hr l/o 12 to 14 hr on-duty trip. Possibly you too will see that knowlege is power and can come away with atleaste the understanding of what "our side of the story" is based on. We don't make this cr@p up. It is in balck and white every month for one to see.
I'll be the first to agree we have our share of big mouths and loud talkers however we are corps of professionals that have not just endured apathetic management and below professional Union leadership but a once very PROUD f/a corps has had to (along with our pilot brothers & sisters) pay the ultimate price in this war by being the first blood spilled. That I can not express enough for it is that event of 9/11/2001 that has left it's mark permantly I am afraid on us and changed this profession forever. For those who say to us "stop your bitching" or "...don't like it then quiet." maybe you should either take a step back and look at the past 2yrs and the current BIG picture and answer weather YOU could just quit or not have SOME grounds to "bich". I for one can't just quit and yes I do bich from time to time. I biched before 9/11 but the thought of quiting a profession and industry I have wanted to be in since I was a little kid running around the terminal of the OLD Willame B Hartsfield Atlanta Int'l Airport was virtually unthinkable.
If I am sick I will not fly,PERIOD!!
However some of the best holidays I have spent aere on l/o's with crew members I hardly knew. Life is like a peace of checked luggage, ya never know if your gonna get it.-
Peace
silverbirdFLL
You like that one, huh? I'm glad I can provide some humor on this board.Garfield1966 said:
If f/a's don't want to know their contract, then shame on them! You say f/a's don't know their contract. Funny thing is when I go and represent them in a 31R, they sure know it well. Crew Scheduling, doesn't know the contract at all. You should not be allowed to work as a scheduler, if you don't know the APFA or APA contracts, period! I don't know how many times I have argued on the phone with scheduling regarding legalities and they think they're correct. Crew Scheduling is NEVER right! What training center did the AA Crew Schedulers attend? Romper Room? Every AA Crew Scheduler is ridiculous. I dare you to challenge me on the contract, I will make you look like the biggest fool in DFW!
Mikey, for someone who is pro-union, pro-contract, 93' striker, you sure don't act or sound like it. You sound pro-company and that's sad.
Garfield1966
Veteran
Wow, and to think I have been accused of painting with a broad brush. To even make an argument like that completely destroys your credibility. I have been in Crew Skd for quite some time and have never had a successful pay claim against me. So, to me, that means 1 thing. I do know the contract and have not made an error. According to you it cannot mean that I pulled one over on a FA because according to you 99.9% of them know the contract from front to back. I guess I could just be dealing with that .1% on every base that I work. Whether or not you know the contract or not is irrelevant to your statement. You stated that 99.9% of the FA’s know the contact. That is the statement that is so absurd that if you truly believe that (which I doubt any sane person would) you would need counseling. Do your self a favor and try to keep your statements realistic and believable. You will do wonders for what is left of your credibility.
I have been made a fool of by much bigger morons than you so I am not too concerned about that.
I have been made a fool of by much bigger morons than you so I am not too concerned about that.
Like I said, schedulers have no brains. They're puppets on a string controlled by AMR management. All you do is eat your doughnuts and drink your coffee. Get on the JFK desk and you will not stand a chance against me. When I flew DOM, deleted by moderator. Would you like to be #3?Garfield1966 said:
Maybe it's...99.9% know there is a contract.
When I was a F/A at AA, I carried my contract with me. When there was an issue, I'd open it to the appropriate section(s) and read to the scheduler the disputed protion of the contract. Many times, doing so worked to my advantage. Some times, I overlooked another area which the scheduler was looking at.
Sadly, many F/As then, and I suspect many now, don't know/use their contract.
When I was a F/A at AA, I carried my contract with me. When there was an issue, I'd open it to the appropriate section(s) and read to the scheduler the disputed protion of the contract. Many times, doing so worked to my advantage. Some times, I overlooked another area which the scheduler was looking at.
Sadly, many F/As then, and I suspect many now, don't know/use their contract.
Garfield1966
Veteran
Golly Mr. WRX. Please don’t ruin me. Please don’t. lol. Um, how exactly did you ruin them? I know both of them. Both of them are level 3’s. Both of them seem like such nice people. I guess they mask their pain very well.
Do your self and the rest of us a favor, step away from the pipe, it will make you act like a fool. Oops. Too late. Talk about delusions of grandeur. Work is work. Most of us take pride in what we do. We go to work each day and we do our thing and go home. I know for my self that when I punch out, work is over. It has never come home with me. This board is entertainment for me. I am pretty sure the same holds true for OperAAtions, Brandon and Shirley. I have never seen a scheduler ruined by a FA or vice versa.
Now if you’ll excuse me, Gepetto is getting on my case (anyone think he got that joke?). He said it is my turn to make the doughnut and coffee run.
AV8NSIGO
I think you are right. FA’s are no different than the general public in that respect. Politics is a perfect example. Most folks have not a clue as to who is in power or what they represent. They get their information from word of mouth or from windbags like WRX and have no idea what is true, what is false or what falls somewhere in between. In all the years I have been working in Crew Sched, I have yet to be asked for a contract reference when I give out information. When I worked in customer service and help reservation agents find info, they always wanted to be spoon fed, they never asked how to find the information, much less where I found the information. That is how people get manipulated in to situations or contracts that are bad for everyone. People take no initiative to learn. But I’ll be damned if everyone of them can’t b1tch up a storm when they feel like they have been screwed over. When things don’t go as planned (Iraqi war?) all of a sudden people are ticked off.
Well, boys and girls. My puppet master is calling. It’s Saturday and I have to work. OH and I get to work NYC. This should be fun.
Do your self and the rest of us a favor, step away from the pipe, it will make you act like a fool. Oops. Too late. Talk about delusions of grandeur. Work is work. Most of us take pride in what we do. We go to work each day and we do our thing and go home. I know for my self that when I punch out, work is over. It has never come home with me. This board is entertainment for me. I am pretty sure the same holds true for OperAAtions, Brandon and Shirley. I have never seen a scheduler ruined by a FA or vice versa.
Now if you’ll excuse me, Gepetto is getting on my case (anyone think he got that joke?). He said it is my turn to make the doughnut and coffee run.
AV8NSIGO
I think you are right. FA’s are no different than the general public in that respect. Politics is a perfect example. Most folks have not a clue as to who is in power or what they represent. They get their information from word of mouth or from windbags like WRX and have no idea what is true, what is false or what falls somewhere in between. In all the years I have been working in Crew Sched, I have yet to be asked for a contract reference when I give out information. When I worked in customer service and help reservation agents find info, they always wanted to be spoon fed, they never asked how to find the information, much less where I found the information. That is how people get manipulated in to situations or contracts that are bad for everyone. People take no initiative to learn. But I’ll be damned if everyone of them can’t b1tch up a storm when they feel like they have been screwed over. When things don’t go as planned (Iraqi war?) all of a sudden people are ticked off.
Well, boys and girls. My puppet master is calling. It’s Saturday and I have to work. OH and I get to work NYC. This should be fun.
KCFlyer
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 11,179
- 1,420
Thanks for the heads up wrx - I just booked my family's Thanksgiving travel on Delta. I understand that AA needs the revenues worse than Delta, but I can't run the risk of having my holiday plans screwed by an unsanctioned FA action. Of course, you DO realize that this lack of revenue only makes it that much more difficult for your company to even THINK about any kind of incentive pay. But...remember this - it's not the airline that caused me to book away, nor is it your sellout union that caused me to book away...this ones all yours, baby.
I would rather see you enjoy your holiday, then worry about getting to your destination or home. This holiday season is going to be fun. The f/a's are not the only group thinking about doing this.KCFlyer said:
Garfield,
I filed a grievance against both of them and won them both. Trying to say they called a f/a for a trip and actually never doing it. Shame, shame your calls are recorded!! AA scheduling is for the birds. I have some seed for you when you get hungry.
KCFlyer
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 11,179
- 1,420
wrx - don't worry, I'll enjoy my holiday. But I still view what you are encouraging as something akin to shooting yourself in the head to cure a headache. How much holiday pay will you get if AA decides that their only options are to downsize further or shut down because of lack of revenues? The actions you encourage directly impact your customer. Last I checked, your customers were responsible for ALL of the revenue on your flights. Maybe you should step out of the industry for a while...apparently some airline employees have no idea of how the market works.
Happy flying...but remember, when you pass the empty seats on a plane, take a moment to realize that your company is making $0.00 from them. Then think about how many folks like myself might have been sitting in one, except for the fact that one of their FA's was encouraging others to call in sick over the holidays. Imagine the additional costs that your airline will incur because they are covering the costs to get their customers to their destinations, or in trying to restore the customer goodwill with free tickets and vouchers. Every voucher they issue to a customer impacted by this action is that much less they'd have to improve your situation. Seems like when they do come to the table, they'll have that much less cash to work with to resolve your issues.
Be thankful that you are in a union...even a "sellout" union when you do this. Most places would call that "abuse of sick time" and terminate you...regardless of if you worked there 14 days or 14 years.
Happy flying...but remember, when you pass the empty seats on a plane, take a moment to realize that your company is making $0.00 from them. Then think about how many folks like myself might have been sitting in one, except for the fact that one of their FA's was encouraging others to call in sick over the holidays. Imagine the additional costs that your airline will incur because they are covering the costs to get their customers to their destinations, or in trying to restore the customer goodwill with free tickets and vouchers. Every voucher they issue to a customer impacted by this action is that much less they'd have to improve your situation. Seems like when they do come to the table, they'll have that much less cash to work with to resolve your issues.
Be thankful that you are in a union...even a "sellout" union when you do this. Most places would call that "abuse of sick time" and terminate you...regardless of if you worked there 14 days or 14 years.
KC Flyer:
Maybe you should take my place for 1 month and see how it really is! Don't talk your crap about revenue and shooting yourself in the head. PORTION DELETED BY MODERATOR! When you work a trip from JFK-NRT (14 hours) then layover for 11 hours and then fly home NRT-JFK (13 hours), then we can talk. Getting home and resting for 10 hours and have the phone ring to do it all over again. Then let me see what you have to say about f/a's calling in sick for the holidays because we're to damn tired to work under these conditions.
So step up to the plate and come work as an AA flight attendant. I give you 2 days and you will be crying and quitting.
A little FYI, it's against the law for any company to fire you for being out sick if you have a doctor's note! If they do...LAWSUIT! PORTION DELETED BY MODERATOR
Maybe you should take my place for 1 month and see how it really is! Don't talk your crap about revenue and shooting yourself in the head. PORTION DELETED BY MODERATOR! When you work a trip from JFK-NRT (14 hours) then layover for 11 hours and then fly home NRT-JFK (13 hours), then we can talk. Getting home and resting for 10 hours and have the phone ring to do it all over again. Then let me see what you have to say about f/a's calling in sick for the holidays because we're to damn tired to work under these conditions.
So step up to the plate and come work as an AA flight attendant. I give you 2 days and you will be crying and quitting.
A little FYI, it's against the law for any company to fire you for being out sick if you have a doctor's note! If they do...LAWSUIT! PORTION DELETED BY MODERATOR
WingNaPrayer
Veteran
The argument here is somewhat silly. Whether it's an abuse of sick time, or whether it creates a loss of revenue are irrelevant. What IS clear is that many employees are unhappy with the way their executive level is playing with their income, and their lives. There are many legal avenues that employees can use to get that point across. When those avenues are met with roadblocks, then oftentimes employees, either individually or collectively, must send a message that an employer DOES hear.
When you participate in a "sick out" organized or otherwise, it can easily and quite noticeably affect an employer's revenue. When the employer is a publicly traded company, the signal is received by even more. As an investor, I know what unhappy employees can do to a company's bottom line, affecting what a company I may be invested in is able to pay out to stockholders in dividends. This is one reason many stockholders keep an eye on employee relations within the companies they may have investments in. Its also what prompts many investors to contact company executives to express that displeasure. You have to keep one thing in mind - a board of directors, and therefore the executive level, serve at the pleasure of the stockholders. You piss off enough stockholders and your executive perk-filled job can be yanked out from under you and you can handily be handed your hat in the blink of an eye. Even if you don't piss off enough stockholders to affect change in a board or executive collection, large numbers of unhappy stockholders expressing their displeasure with their vote sends a clear message to other potential investors.
So many people who had huge blocks of AMR stock when the company's stock feel straight into the toilet, held their breath while the stock slowly recovered. Once it reached a level where the losses weren't as bad as they would have been at a buck and a quarter, they bailed out and dumped their stock. Thirteen bucks wasn't twenty-seven, but it was certainly a helluva lot better than a dollar twenty-five. When you look at where AMR was a mere five years ago when their stock was trading at $120.00 to today where it's struggling to stay above 12 dollars, you quickly realize that the economy can't be to blame for all of AMR's frowns. (its also fun to go back and look at the stock's value, and how it changes from republican administrations, to democrat, then back to republican - it's like a roller coaster in stock values - but that's another story).
To sum it up, while I realize that a sick out of any size can inconvenience the airline's passengers (no more than their own cancellations and misconnects probably) it's a clear signal to those who are paying attention that the work force is not happy about the way they are being treated by the company renting their bodies. Add that to the upcoming changes in occupational seniority (which is going to throw thousands of long time employees in line for layoffs before their co-workers who may have as little as three years with the company), and the doubling of the co-payments for prescription drugs for the second year in a row and other sizeable changes to employee benefits packages, some employees actually begin to wonder if they can afford to work FOR American Airlines anymore.
While I don't like to be inconvenienced at any airport, I fully support any group of employees who are attempting to send a signal to their employer who otherwise can't hear their because their ears are stuffed with million dollar perk filled slush funds.
Be it flight attendants, fleet service, pilots, agents, maintenance, ramp, whatever, as a group if you're not satisfied with the treatment you receive from your executives, I say go for it, do what it takes to get your employer's attention. If they still won't listen, send a louder signal.
Employees who won't speak up for themselves, or decide to play the mouse are sending a signal to employers that they are complacent, and will take whatever abuse is heaped on them, prompting employers to heap more and more on them.
AMR would like nothing more than to have every single employee reduced to minimum wage, no overtime, no healthcare and no job security. That is the only thing that will make your executive level happy.
When you participate in a "sick out" organized or otherwise, it can easily and quite noticeably affect an employer's revenue. When the employer is a publicly traded company, the signal is received by even more. As an investor, I know what unhappy employees can do to a company's bottom line, affecting what a company I may be invested in is able to pay out to stockholders in dividends. This is one reason many stockholders keep an eye on employee relations within the companies they may have investments in. Its also what prompts many investors to contact company executives to express that displeasure. You have to keep one thing in mind - a board of directors, and therefore the executive level, serve at the pleasure of the stockholders. You piss off enough stockholders and your executive perk-filled job can be yanked out from under you and you can handily be handed your hat in the blink of an eye. Even if you don't piss off enough stockholders to affect change in a board or executive collection, large numbers of unhappy stockholders expressing their displeasure with their vote sends a clear message to other potential investors.
So many people who had huge blocks of AMR stock when the company's stock feel straight into the toilet, held their breath while the stock slowly recovered. Once it reached a level where the losses weren't as bad as they would have been at a buck and a quarter, they bailed out and dumped their stock. Thirteen bucks wasn't twenty-seven, but it was certainly a helluva lot better than a dollar twenty-five. When you look at where AMR was a mere five years ago when their stock was trading at $120.00 to today where it's struggling to stay above 12 dollars, you quickly realize that the economy can't be to blame for all of AMR's frowns. (its also fun to go back and look at the stock's value, and how it changes from republican administrations, to democrat, then back to republican - it's like a roller coaster in stock values - but that's another story).
To sum it up, while I realize that a sick out of any size can inconvenience the airline's passengers (no more than their own cancellations and misconnects probably) it's a clear signal to those who are paying attention that the work force is not happy about the way they are being treated by the company renting their bodies. Add that to the upcoming changes in occupational seniority (which is going to throw thousands of long time employees in line for layoffs before their co-workers who may have as little as three years with the company), and the doubling of the co-payments for prescription drugs for the second year in a row and other sizeable changes to employee benefits packages, some employees actually begin to wonder if they can afford to work FOR American Airlines anymore.
While I don't like to be inconvenienced at any airport, I fully support any group of employees who are attempting to send a signal to their employer who otherwise can't hear their because their ears are stuffed with million dollar perk filled slush funds.
Be it flight attendants, fleet service, pilots, agents, maintenance, ramp, whatever, as a group if you're not satisfied with the treatment you receive from your executives, I say go for it, do what it takes to get your employer's attention. If they still won't listen, send a louder signal.
Employees who won't speak up for themselves, or decide to play the mouse are sending a signal to employers that they are complacent, and will take whatever abuse is heaped on them, prompting employers to heap more and more on them.
AMR would like nothing more than to have every single employee reduced to minimum wage, no overtime, no healthcare and no job security. That is the only thing that will make your executive level happy.
WingNaPrayer
Veteran
How many sick days can you take in a row before a Doctor's release to come back to work is required? Surely a couple of days isn't going to require it, but a couple of days sick time in a row by a large number of employees can easily bring a lot of havoc to an airline's schedule.
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