Its Official....UsAirways makes formal 8.6 billion proposal

[jimntx]

The two contracts that the LCC FAs rejected actually had some pretty good duty day protections built in- the earlier your check-in, and the more takeoffs, the shorter the duty day. It is my understanding that the AA FA's do not have that type of protection in their recently ratified LBFO, is that correct?

Not exactly. We (domestic flight attendants) now have similar on-duty limitations as our International flight attendants as of the signing of the LBFO "contract." We used to have 3 separate sign-in "windows" with different duty limitations. Now there are two.

If sign-in 0600-2059, then scheduled/rescheduled maximum is 14 hours; operational on-duty maximum is 16 hours.
If sign-in 2100-0559, then scheduled rescheduled maximum is 12 hours; operational on-duty maximum is 14 hours.

In case you do not use same terminology, scheduled/rescheduled means when the sequence is created or a re-assignment occurs, the company can not create a flight sequence where you are on duty longer than the scheduled maximum. The on-duty maximum allows for situations where the last flight of the day has already started, but there is an unavoidable delay--such as diversion to a secondary airport to refuel, or in a holding pattern--and you need to finish that day.

This is all in transition because the company has finally decided to combine the domestic and International flight attendant corps as the rest of the airlines do, but this is going to take some time because they also are changing over to preferential bidding, and that software needs to be installed and operational first.

Domestic on-duty limits are now the same as International "Non-Long-Range" flying. International long range maximums are 16 scheduled, 18 on-duty. Long-range is such as Chicago to New Delhi, DFW to Narita. There's also an extended long-range, but you don't really want to know that one. (It starts with a possible 20 hour scheduled maximum. Eww.)

 

[Itestwell]

Not exactly. We (domestic flight attendants) now have similar on-duty limitations as our International flight attendants as of the signing of the LBFO "contract." We used to have 3 separate sign-in "windows" with different duty limitations. Now there are two.

If sign-in 0600-2059, then scheduled/rescheduled maximum is 14 hours; operational on-duty maximum is 16 hours.
If sign-in 2100-0559, then scheduled rescheduled maximum is 12 hours; operational on-duty maximum is 14 hours.

In case you do not use same terminology, scheduled/rescheduled means when the sequence is created or a re-assignment occurs, the company can not create a flight sequence where you are on duty longer than the scheduled maximum. The on-duty maximum allows for situations where the last flight of the day has already started, but there is an unavoidable delay--such as diversion to a secondary airport to refuel, or in a holding pattern--and you need to finish that day.

This is all in transition because the company has finally decided to combine the domestic and International flight attendant corps as the rest of the airlines do, but this is going to take some time because they also are changing over to preferential bidding, and that software needs to be installed and operational first.

Domestic on-duty limits are now the same as International "Non-Long-Range" flying. International long range maximums are 16 scheduled, 18 on-duty. Long-range is such as Chicago to New Delhi, DFW to Narita. There's also an extended long-range, but you don't really want to know that one. (It starts with a possible 20 hour scheduled maximum. Eww.)

I see. For any domestic flying that checks in between 0600-2059, are there any leg limitations? For instance, in our failed TA, if you checked in between 0600-0659, and you had three legs, you couldn't be scheduled longer than 12:15 duty day, with a 14:15 day in irregular ops. Or, if you checked in between 0500-0559, and had four legs, you couldn't be scheduled longer than 11:15 day, or 13:15 in irregular ops.

Also, with this chart, the Negotiating Committee limited the domestic block hours to 8 hours with four or more flight segments. In some cases, with less than 4 legs, you could fly to 10 hours block domestically, but *only* if you checked in between 0700-1259. Any check-ins earlier or later were limited to 8 or, in some cases, 9 hours.

IMO, these are some pretty solid protections that we turned down, and I was just wondering if AA had anything similar in its LBFO, but it seems it's just "0600-2059, 14 scheduled/ 16 irrops".

Is there any limit on actual block time within that 14/16 hour window?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Time to continue this discussion on the AA forum, huh?

 

[usa1]

But no matter which of the current merger scenarios plays out, it is clear in the event of a merger the surviving name will be American Airlines and American's stakeholders will have a majority of the merged airline.

http://beta.fool.com...-airways/19962/

 

[jimntx]

I see. For any domestic flying that checks in between 0600-2059, are there any leg limitations? For instance, in our failed TA, if you checked in between 0600-0659, and you had three legs, you couldn't be scheduled longer than 12:15 duty day, with a 14:15 day in irregular ops. Or, if you checked in between 0500-0559, and had four legs, you couldn't be scheduled longer than 11:15 day, or 13:15 in irregular ops.

Also, with this chart, the Negotiating Committee limited the domestic block hours to 8 hours with four or more flight segments. In some cases, with less than 4 legs, you could fly to 10 hours block domestically, but *only* if you checked in between 0700-1259. Any check-ins earlier or later were limited to 8 or, in some cases, 9 hours.

IMO, these are some pretty solid protections that we turned down, and I was just wondering if AA had anything similar in its LBFO, but it seems it's just "0600-2059, 14 scheduled/ 16 irrops".

Is there any limit on actual block time within that 14/16 hour window?

No leg limitations. No limit on block time. Though to be fair, I have to say that in my vast career of 11 years at AA based at DFW and STL, I've never seen a sequence with more than 4 legs in one day, and those are usually short legs--DFW-AUS-DFW-ABQ-DFW kind of thing. There is no limit on block time (I think), but there is a limit on duty aloft time. It's similar to the limits on pilots, but for us it is contractual. For them it is an FAR. We have some (for us) high time turns like DFW-SEA-DFW that the total day is worth over 8 hours flying time, but being based in the center of the country, there isn't much flying like that. (Those of course go very senior because up until the LBFO contract, the SEA turn lines were usually 9 day lines. Now I think they are 10 day lines.)

 

[Itestwell]

No leg limitations. No limit on block time.

That's what I thought. I think we'll soon realize what we've voted down at USAirways.

 

[firedougparker]

$8.6 billion... HA! That's more than three times the value of our company! No bank on earth is going to lend us that amount of money based on some idiotic, overly optimistic merger plan. In fact sources tell me Doug is having trouble lining up the money.

 

[signals]

If that were true, wouldn't the creditors have laughed him back to Tempe by now? 🙄

 

[FWAAA]

$8.6 billion... HA! That's more than three times the value of our company! No bank on earth is going to lend us that amount of money based on some idiotic, overly optimistic merger plan. In fact sources tell me Doug is having trouble lining up the money.

There's no requirement that Parker borrow any money to get the deal done. AA is going to issue new stock to its creditors and that stock will likely be worth billions of dollars.

Parker wants to merge the companies and wants the shareholders of LCC to receive about 30% of the total amount of stock based on the current inflated value of LCC. AA has more than $4 billion in cash and LCC has more than $2 billion in cash, so the combined airline will have several billion dollars in cash even after AA exits Ch 11 (which will require some bills to be paid).

 

[usa1]

Merger is coming one way or another .... I think Parker's plan is best for employees. If Horton has his way he forces a hostile bid and much of the new company's equity goes out the door. Employees are left holding the bag.

 

[robbedagain]

usa1 what do u mean if horton has his way how is that possible to force a hostile bid for aa im not sure i understand

 

[skinvalve]

AA is orchestrating this deal. Does anyone seriously believe they will settle for playing a second seat to US fiddling?

 

[cltrat]

AA is orchestrating this deal. Does anyone seriously believe they will settle for playing a second seat to US fiddling?

lol if anyone is orchestrating anything it's the creditors you're kidding yourself if you believe otherwise

 

[usa1]

Merger is coming one way or another .... I think Parker's plan is best for employees. If Horton has his way he forces a hostile bid and much of the new company's equity goes out the door. Employees are left holding the bag.

A hostile bid from Parker could move more money to debt holders ..... and deplete cash on hand for new company going forward. Also enriches Horton and his team as they exit.

 

[signals]

Make no mistake, regardless of outcome, everyone will walk away happy and $$$$$$$$$