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Jack Kane Sucks!

AA spin
"At the end of the session, Mediator Kane told the two parties there had been insufficient progress made and the NMB did not think it was in the best interest of the parties to schedule further meetings, as it has been a year since the first tentative agreement failed ratification by the membership."

TWU spin
"Mediator Jack Kane informed Co-Chairs Larry Pike and Don Videtich, as well as American Airlines management, that due to the amount of time expended in these mediated sessions, insufficient progress, and insufficient hope for progress, the NMB could not justify scheduling future mediated sessions at this time."

Eolesen spin
"So, show me where the RLA says you can't be "put on ice" and I'll believe they're in violation... There are no time limits specified outside the cooling off period, and there's nothing I've ever seen which says the mediator can't go at a pace they feel is appropriate, even if it means doing nothing for months at a time."



Sounds like an impasse to me......... In the interest of honesty, how about we call a spade a spade
 
A lawyer once told me when it comes to the law, if something isn't prohibited, it's allowed.

So, show me where the RLA says you can't be "put on ice" and I'll believe they're in violation... There are no time limits specified outside the cooling off period, and there's nothing I've ever seen which says the mediator can't go at a pace they feel is appropriate, even if it means doing nothing for months at a time.
Usually that applies to restrictions placed upon citizens by the government, not the other way around.

Clearly the "PUT on Ice" tactic is one thats not spelled out in the act itself and has never been challenged by either the unions or the industry.

The NMB clearly states that its function is to reach a prompt settlement, not help AirCon suppress wages.

When it comes to restricting the actions of citizens it usually has to be explicite and in writing to be enforceable. It is assumed that workers in the private sector can strike in their quest for improved wages and working conditions, the RLA has placed restrictions on those rights under a certain process. The process is spelled out on the NMB Website, it says if the NMB feels no further progress can be made through mediation then the parties are offered binding arbitration or are released. Its absurd to say that they can do things that are not spelled out because if thats the case then why bother having anything spelled out? If the government makes a law and presents it to the people they have an obligation to follow it as presented, even if they dont like the outcome, if they dont then there really is no law and certainly nothing the people should consent to obey. Its not like they cant still prevent self help, they have two more alternatives but they must let the process continue or it loses all credibility.
 
Usually that applies to restrictions placed upon citizens by the government, not the other way around.

Clearly the "PUT on Ice" tactic is one thats not spelled out in the act itself and has never been challenged by either the unions or the industry.

The NMB clearly states that its function is to reach a prompt settlement, not help AirCon suppress wages.

When it comes to restricting the actions of citizens it usually has to be explicite and in writing to be enforceable. It is assumed that workers in the private sector can strike in their quest for improved wages and working conditions, the RLA has placed restrictions on those rights under a certain process. The process is spelled out on the NMB Website, it says if the NMB feels no further progress can be made through mediation then the parties are offered binding arbitration or are released. Its absurd to say that they can do things that are not spelled out because if thats the case then why bother having anything spelled out? If the government makes a law and presents it to the people they have an obligation to follow it as presented, even if they dont like the outcome, if they dont then there really is no law and certainly nothing the people should consent to obey. Its not like they cant still prevent self help, they have two more alternatives but they must let the process continue or it loses all credibility.

Let them stall all they want. The workforce is getting to the point that the operation is going to suffer like not seen since negotiations started. The "put on ice" status has awoken even those willing to let the process work.
The longer they stall, the longer the company has to wait to get the changes they really want..like ASM ratio and NO PENSION for new highers as well as no PREFUNDING medical for anyone.
The longer they wait, the more the workforce gets more disgusted and the more they will make sure AA's dismal on time performance stays at the absolute bottom.
 
... snip

Sounds like an impasse to me......... In the interest of honesty, how about we call a spade a spade.

The word "impasse" wasn't used by the mediator and probably intentionally. Neither party requested an impasse be declared with the subsequent release to the 30 day "cooling off" period. I find it rather amusing Little Jimmy didn't show his arse again as he did at first, immediately requesting an impasse to be declared. Evidently, he's now afraid he might be granted one and the company isn't ready for the strike thing - yet. Quite a show of bravado for the troops.
 
The word "impasse" wasn't used by the mediator and probably intentionally. Neither party requested an impasse be declared with the subsequent release to the 30 day "cooling off" period. I find it rather amusing Little Jimmy didn't show his arse again as he did at first, immediately requesting an impasse to be declared. Evidently, he's now afraid he might be granted one and the company isn't ready for the strike thing - yet. Quite a show of bravado for the troops.

Kane said everything except the "I" word... Remember the story about "if it looks like a duck?" All this is is more government BS, legal speak crap...
 
IIRC, the only one actually empowered to declare an impasse is the three members of the NMB.

Bash the mediator and the process all you want, but I suspect the real problem is you have political appointees who know that it's better to hold the unions hostage than it is to have yet another failure occur on Pharaoh Bama's watch...
 
I would like to know how many of you chest pounders think Chapter 11 will be better for you than what has been offered?
 
I would like to know how many of you chest pounders think Chapter 11 will be better for you than what has been offered?

Never been one of the restore and more advocates and never thought BK would improve my life. I truly thought, as Bob has said, there was money left on the table last year. The 65% of us that voted down the T/A agreed and hoped the economy would improve. It didn't and it was a gamble we lost. Is it now time to again throw fate to the wind? With so many near retirement, do we cut our loses, take the 3 year deal with the 6% structural raise, lump sum, holidays, and hope the pensions survive till we expire? Few have faith in the TWU to continue. Wage parity is a lost cause, but, the pilot cap on premiums and vacation restoration should be attainable in order to put this nightmare behind us.
 
Never been one of the restore and more advocates and never thought BK would improve my life. I truly thought, as Bob has said, there was money left on the table last year. The 65% of us that voted down the T/A agreed and hoped the economy would improve. It didn't and it was a gamble we lost. Is it now time to again throw fate to the wind? With so many near retirement, do we cut our loses, take the 3 year deal with the 6% structural raise, lump sum, holidays, and hope the pensions survive till we expire? Few have faith in the TWU to continue. Wage parity is a lost cause, but, the pilot cap on premiums and vacation restoration should be attainable in order to put this nightmare behind us.

If there were even one ounce of truth spoken when the TWU told us that their Political support for Obama had earned us a labor friendly mediator and favor from the NMB Office, then maybe things would have turned out different. My opinion was and still is that the TWU is weak, lies, and bluffs their way through representational issues from grievance handling to negotiations. The company knows this to be true. This is why they protected the TWU throughout the AMFA Drive, and why they fought with all legal tools available the AMFA vs AA Federal Lawsuit over distribution of union literature and the failure to remain neutral. It is simple, the TWU is predictable, easy to win against, and AA feared any change from that comfort. You are currently witnessing and perfect of example of why that defense of TWU was mounted. Docile, weak, unethical, immoral, and undemocratic labor organizations, have to be the best thing management have going for them in this industry. All the effort and money expended during the AMFA battle has now been recouped plus some extra.

We don't belong to a "union", and never have, we belong to a dues collection wing of the liberal democratic party, and the TWU doesn't really get much in return for that effort either. They have no strength, no earned respect, and even a majority of their members do not support them. If you combined those that favor a union change along with those that are just plain anti-union period, it is clear the TWU supporters are outnumbered by a long shot.

I would like to ask of those that voted against release, if not release at this point, then what is your strategy going forward? Because pulling a bluff of this magnitude, and that bluff being called, means you probabaly no longer even have a shot at what was previously on the table. This is a simple re-run of 1989. We voted no, then soon voted yes on a worse offer. History does repeat itself when leaders fail to learn from previous mistakes. TWU never learns anything period!

This thread titled "Jack Kane Sucks" is just one more "excuse" to blame by those that despise this union. They hate this union, cannot change this union, cannot replace this union, so they move from one thing, person, or group to blame to another. To name a few you have heard, Bus Drivers, Fleet Service Clerks, AFL-CIO, Tulsa Overhaul, Unlicensed Skilled, and now Jack Kane.

It is true that Jack Kane and the NMB sure as hell are not offering up any favors in exchange for millions in political contributions to Obama. But why did anyone expect something different? Because the weak TWU leaders fooled their asses once again by telling lies, and once again the gullible believed them. Everytime this union hoodwinks the gullible, then on que the gullible instantly create another blame object to complain about instead of accepting their own ignorance and weakness. It is like watching a "Three Stooges" rerun on TV Land over and over. How many times do these leaders have to lie before everyone no longer believes what they peddle? Just because we are unable to effect the changes we seek, doesn't mean we should retreat to believing them once again next time they lie to us. This is why I have always maintained that a belief that our fight is in the political arena is nothing more than a cop out from a weak labor movement. The fight has to be in the street and the workers direct area if you want to win, the union has to be "us" and "we" instead of "them" and "they", and neither the leaders nor the members of this union have the stomach for that.

I am not ready to make a statment of "I told you so" regarding my yes vote on the T/A

But I will now predict that it is game over, or in other words we just lost our Queen, Rook, and a Knight in one move so it is without question soon to be....

CheckMate! Company Wins again.

Who do Y'all think we should be blame next?
 
And by the way, does anyone have a roll call vote by name and station regarding the vote on requesting a release from Kane? Or has anyone inside the secret society TWU circle even confirmed or denied the vote took place?

How about it Bob? Are you not ready to disclose the facts now even if they kick you off? I don't see where staying in the group is really getting you any further in life anyway. To hell with 'em, call their bluff just like the company does and if they remove you file a lawsuit. You would be doing all us more justice by calling their bluff disclosing the truth and then fighting the TWU in court than allowing yourself to be part of what is about to be the end result.

Infact, why not get all the rest those that voted in favor of a request for release to sign a letter together explaining exactly what has happened and why. Then see if they have it within them to remove all of you. Removing a group instead of an individual would be seen by a Federal Judge as over the top activity. Call their bluff and watch them fold up like a cheap tent, that is what everyone else does that deals with the weak and worthless appointed dictators.

The secrecy is not for the memberships benefit that is obvious. It is to protect the fools.
 

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