January Post-pay Cuts

[Winglet]

I just cannot believe that UAL is still losing money even after all the paycuts. I think someone is cooking the books. IF UAL does not make money by June, just shut it down. Just my thoughts....

[post="251511"][/post]​

The secured creditors will keep it going just as long as possible to milk everything they can before the big bust. It really doesn't matter what labor costs are. As long as there are WAY too many airline seats in the air and zero pricing power, oil is over $50, and the business models are substancially the same, the major airlines are going to continue to lose money.

The problem is, if the business models are changed, I guarantee you that anybody that doesn't live in a major city isn't going to like the new system. No service at many, drastically cutback service at the rest, and VERY HIGH fares at smaller cities.

Unfortunately, as long as the majors are still flying (regardless of the losses) Mr. Bush's gubment is going to ignore it and pour the national wealth and the finest American lives into the cesspool in Iraq.

 

[mweiss]

I just cannot believe that UAL is still losing money even after all the paycuts. I think someone is cooking the books.

[post="251511"][/post]​

There's no evidence to suggest any book cooking. The numbers are all out there for anyone to examine. BTS has the yield information (a quarter behind, but it still gives good information), and the rest is in a readily digestible format.

 

[spacewaitress]

The paycuts were retroactive to January 6. Payroll is done for the previous month by the first Tuesday of the following month. Therefore, I would bet the paycuts were included in the losses for January.

It appears that busdriver's just whistling in the dark.

 

[Busdrvr]

The paycuts were retroactive to January 6. Payroll is done for the previous month by the first Tuesday of the following month. Therefore, I would bet the paycuts were included in the losses for January.

It appears that busdriver's just whistling in the dark.

[post="251528"][/post]​

Maybe you should re-read my post... 🙄

And all the paycuts were NOT in place for all of January....

So which paycuts were in effect FOR ALL of January. Additionally, did the judge RETROACTIVELY cut AMFA pay?

 

[Busdrvr]

I have a source in UA financial planning who says all the pay cuts were included (some as accruals) in the January profitability. Do you have a source that he is wrong or are you just muddying the water?

As for your three links:

1) F9 doesn't report January profits, but they are certainly doing better than UA in terms of margin.
2) Continental lost $45m in January which is less than 1/3 of UA's operating loss and CO is much larger than 1/3 UA's size. Let me also add CO isn't in chapter 11, so UA is losing more after two years of restructuring than CO is before even entering.
3) If you are proposing that IAir is a suitable comparison to UA when they lost $1 for every $1 of revenue in the quarter, then I'll grant you UA is beating the worst performing airline of my lifetime.

[post="251455"][/post]​

Lets go over this slowly.....

1. while F9 doesn't report monthly profits/losses, one need only an IQ above room temperature to make some generalizations. First, FRNT's operating margin for the same Quarter last year was -4%. Now YOY january pax RASM was down approx 7%. And BTW, fuel costs are significantly higher this year. So DUH do ya think they may be racking up huge losses?
2. CAL's losses were mitigated by the sale of STUFF. sooner or later, you run out of STUFF to sell. When the gains on investments are excluded CAL's results were inline with UAL's. I'm sure if UAL had had the benefit of walking away from debt twice before, as has CAL, then maybe we wouldn't be discussing UAL's BK progress....
3. what I'm proposing is that UAL got attacked full bore from all sides. From ATA in Chicago, FRNT in Den, and Flyi in IAD. Look across the LCC spectrum. who is hurting the most? The ones who went after UAL? While the hemorage, UAL's yeilds will be affected, when the bleeding stops (due to lack of blood), UAL's yeilds will improve. As to Flyi's 'longevity', they started with a BUNCH of cash. they've burned through half in one quarter. Now leasors are just trying to maximize revenue until the inevitable happens (Flyi's liquidation). they've got months, not years.

 

[Busdrvr]

The source is their 4Q summary release. It specifies that in the text.

[post="251453"][/post]​

Sorry, I can't take your word for it. please link us to the text that states UAL drew down it's financing in Q4. 🙄

 

[spacewaitress]

Alpa's and AFA's were retroactive to what, the 6th of January? I believe IAM's was imposed at the end of December or 1st of January. AMFA's was imposed around the first week of Jan. Management had theirs done by the first of January, or thereabouts.

The timeline for IAM and AMFA may not be exact, but generally accurate.

 

[Busdrvr]

Alpa's and AFA's were retroactive to what, the 6th of January? I believe IAM's was imposed at the end of December or 1st of January. AMFA's was imposed around the first week of Jan. Management had theirs done by the first of January, or thereabouts.

The timeline for IAM and AMFA may not be exact, but generally accurate.

[post="252014"][/post]​

From YOUR union (unitedAFA.org)

On January 31, Judge Eugene Wedoff approved cuts in wages and sick benefits effective February 1 through May 31 for United’s mechanics and cleaners. At the same time, he approved concession agreements accepted by the pilots and flight attendants unions. The pilots ratified an agreement cutting wages by 11.8 percent representing a $180 million annual savings for the airline. Flight attendants narrowly approved a 9.5 percent cut for an annual cost reduction of $131 million. United is seeking a total of $725 million in salary and benefit cuts from its workers, using its bankruptcy filing as a bludgeon

It appears that busdriver's just whistling in the dark.

Who's whistling in the dark?

 

[casual rat]

Alpa's and AFA's were retroactive to what, the 6th of January? I believe IAM's was imposed at the end of December or 1st of January. AMFA's was imposed around the first week of Jan. Management had theirs done by the first of January, or thereabouts.

The timeline for IAM and AMFA may not be exact, but generally accurate.

[post="252014"][/post]​

It was January 6th, I believe for the IAM...It was good to see all those 'hardworking' Management-types get some of their 'paycut' 🙄 back. Ok, I'm being facetious.

 

[spacewaitress]

Even so, I'm not holding my breath for February. At least there are 3 fewer days than January!