Because Of Ted?

737nCH11 said:
Pretty sad when AAI hires tons of scabs and convinces them to prostitute themselves further by working for obscene wages, and then they're considered one of the "darlings" of the airline industry. Thanks, but I'd rather keep my dignity.
You know, there was a time when you actually had to cross a picket-line in order to be a "SCAB". Now, I guess, "SCAB" is defined by not belonging to the right union.
FWAAA said:
Is it remotely possible that if airline employees had to be "paid" for every minute that they are at the airport, the rate of pay would simply be adjusted downward so the total labor expense would remain constant?

The "we are not paid for all our time" argument looks like a desire to rearrange some deck chairs.
Oh please, I was answering the question asked. I never said that either way was right or wrong. The person asked why the companies hung on to the RLA. I provided an answer.

Flight attendants are hourly employees. If it were not for the RLA, flight attendants would have to be paid for every single minute that they are on duty--including such foolishness as the 4-hour sits at hub airports between flights that AA flight attendants have to endure because the company can not get it's scheduling act together.

Now whether elimination of the RLA would or would not result in higher/lower/ equal hourly rates is not the issue. I am just pointing out that the RLA makes work for no pay and required hours on duty without pay possible.

And let's not forget that the basis for that part of the law was pure unadulterated racism. The railroads got Congress to include in the law a clause that said that Pullman porters, who were all African-American, did not have to be paid while the train was in the station because hauling heavy luggage up and down train stairs, showing passengers to their compartments, stowing passenger luggage, etc. was not real work because there was no direct benefit to the company.
Re: RLA,
The one advantage in changing the way salaries are paid would be that it would make it much more difficult for Airline employee salaries to be mischaracterized to the public. When a Mickey Dee's employee see's a Mesa guy getting $18 an hour, they think it's big money, when another airline employee see's $18 an hour, they see a guy who may not actually be getting minimum wage for his total number of hours on duty.
Not true. AAI inherited tons of EAL scabs from ValuJet. I wasn't referring to the fact that they weren't ALPA. Other scab-rich outfits include Spirit, the former Express One, and Private Jet.
737nCH11 said:
I was referring to the fact that they weren't ALPA. Other scab-rich outfits include Spirit, the former Express One, and Private Jet.
That's a pretty broad stroke. Sounds to me that what your saying is, That any pilot who doesn't belong to ALPA is a scab. There are a lot of pilots at UPS and other non-sked's who would beg to differ with you.
You are absolutely wrong. No pilot has to belong to any union if the do not wish to. All that is needed to be done is mail in a letter telliing the union that you no longer want to be a member.

Let’s face it, the Union is just in it for the money and power. It is all extortion. Before I was furloughed we would routinely get a letter saying that if we did not pay our dues ALPA would have use terminated because United was a closed shop. ALPA sucks! United cannot compete with the LCC as long as we have the pension liabilities hanging over our heads. The people in charge have the most to lose. They would rather have the junior guy take the pay cuts or get furloughed than give anything up. Just look at the contract from 2003. Who took the biggest paycuts and work rule changes? The junior guys to protect the senior guys fat back side. Look at the new stock options. Do the furloughed guys that voted to pass the contract and gave up the pay for 9 months get anything more than the guy that was furloughed while he still in training? No, that extra money goes to the guys on top. They get twice the stock as the lowest guy, yet took the smaller pay cut. Who is watching out for whom? I love flying, but I despise the Union.
Don't worry Herk....we've got a whole bunch getting ready to be furloughed, right after the summer I would imagine. And the "fat" cats are going to get a little leaner with more cuts.

What a conundrum, because of fuel prices I'll probably lose my aviation job, but because of fuel prices, my shop is packed with work because people want the most efficiency out of their cars. Go figure :up:
Yeah, you can resign from the union, but you still gotta pay dues, what a great deal! Besides, come strike time your name gets put on a list, passed around, and general thuggery prevails, but hey stick together right?
What a conundrum, because of fuel prices I'll probably lose my aviation job, but because of fuel prices, my shop is packed with work because people want the most efficiency out of their cars. Go figure :up:

What I should have said was the irony of the situation and the decision of hanging on to 20 yrs of aviation experience or leave and pursue full time another field of employment.
And geting back to TED, I was in LAS today (6/4) @ 1000 lcl time and there was a B757(new colors) and a non-TED A320 at the UA gates. SO, I thought LAS was supposed to be all TED all the time as of yesterday. Anyone know? Thanks. Just my thoughts......

P.S. - - great spotter time also as there was a JAL 747-400(new colors) taxiing, UPS 757(new colors) and 727-100(new colors), NWA A320(new colors), Aitran B717, and an A319 for AirCanada all in view as I went by
Any union is only as good as it's membership and this also applies to ALPA. At Northwest Airlines you would be hard pressed to find a pilot who was not a huge ALPA supporter. Resign from ALPA? Why? NW ALPA has done an outstanding job of taking care of the pilot group. Examples are supporting the furloughees by paying their health insurance, retaining furloughee pass benefits, temp job placement at NWAirlink, and a job posting board that is updated weekly. Then we could talk about NW compensation/work rules. Even with the 15-20% pay cut on the near horizon, it still one of the best deals going.

It doesn't take too long as a new hire to figure out NW pilots are proud of their strong ALPA union and their company. NW along with DL and UA have set the standard for work rules and compensation and watched the rest of the industry follow. Granted, UA has stumpled a bit in the last two years but they will be back and I am certain the UA pilots will retain ALPA to represent the pilot group.


ALPA is not paying for the medical coverage. They are charging the pilots an extra fee for that. ALPA still gets it 2% of blood money versus AA 1%.