Because Of Ted?

Hey Bigsky, riddle me this, why are airline employees subject to the railway labor act? Its not 1934!

If airline union members want to decertify and go non union, they can't, but in all other industries (save the railroads) they can?

Unions are not what they used to be, the airline biz is not what it used to be. Deregulation means that its a more open playing field, companies are gonna actually compete for profit, and the customers actually benefit! And the big bloated union carriers either learn to compete or die. That is capitalism, and its a good thing, or I suppose you'd rather have big daddy government come and spend everyone else's money to protect your posterior and subsidize you?

But you always have the 'scabs' as your strawman don't you? The times have changed, competition flourishes and the public gains from a more free market. Change with it, or be left behind. Sorry to be so harsh, but none of the muckety-mucks in the union management will tell you that, they are too busy counting your $$$.

Ma'am...you are right in many ways. Probably would be a better discussion under it's own topic.
 
No worries.

But, to this day, no airline union supporter has ever answered my question about the RLA. How are supposedly free people working a union job in an airline served well by not being able to decertify the union if they wish? Seems like the pilots of today are forced to belong to a union that another generation voted in, and they are stuck with unions for the rest of their career.

Unions play by the rules, just so long as they get to make the rules. :D
 
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BINGO! What I don't understand is why do the companies allow this? Why not let disillusioned union employees decertify? I'd think the company would want this. It's crazy.
 
HPearlyretiree said:
How are supposedly free people working a union job in an airline served well by not being able to decertify the union if they wish?
They are free to do that. You can get people to sign cards to have a representation election between the incumbent union and a challenging one. Once over 50% of the bargaining unit signs cards to have an election, then there is an election. If less than 50% of the bargaining unit votes in that election, then there is no union on the property, and no other union can organize for two years, so simply campaign to have people not vote. Voila, no union.

Of course more than 50% would vote, because most airline employees want to be unionized. You seem to be saying it is unfair because YOU may not want a union, even though a majority of your colleagues do. Guess you shoulda worked at DL or some miserable non-union charter or commuter carrier if you think unions are so evil.

Or, in the alternative, if you are asking why it is so hard to get rid of an airline union and why you should have to go through the process I described above, how are today's union members supposed to know that, or have any influence about how the process has evolved? Do the research about the legislation that was passed 75 years ago to find out why it is the way it is.
 
UnitedChicago said:
Bravo Busdrvr. You always take the time to provide factual data to back up your position. You're just about the only one that does.

:)
Factual?? As Fly says in a lot of her posts...........Links?
 
I'm planning a trip MSY to CLT. I noticed a lot of fare quotes on this thread. How 'bout the best fare, so I don't have to do the work!! :D
 
Nope, under the RLA, you can only replace one union with another, you can't decertify a union and be union free like the rest of industry. You vote in a union at an airline, there will be a union there for the life of the company.

Like I said, the union plays by the rules, because they make the rules!
 
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Ok, so how does it work? At the present time, the United flight attendants are distributing signature cards to get an opportunity to vote on a new union (UFAU). What would happen if we get enough signatures to force a vote BUT when the election is completed not enough flight attendants voted for a choice.....do we lose our union completely (as Bear has stated) or does the AFA retain the United f/a's (as HP stated)?
 
Fly said:
BINGO! What I don't understand is why do the companies allow this? Why not let disillusioned union employees decertify? I'd think the company would want this. It's crazy.
One of the main reasons that the companies like the RLA just fine is the "while the train is in the station" clause...

This part of the act allows the airlines to NOT pay the cockpit and cabin crews for the 1-2 hours prior to departure that they are required to be signed in and on property.

This part of the act allows SWA (and others) to require flight attendants to clean the plane for no pay.

This part of the act allows the "pay clock" to stop the instant the door is opened at the destination.

There are a LOT of hours in the average pilot and flight attendant day that are not paid. If it weren't for the RLA, a court might become convinced that cockpit and cabin crews are covered by the Federal Wage and Hour acts that say that if you require an employee to be at work, you have to PAY that employee for his/her time.
 
jimntx said:
One of the main reasons that the companies like the RLA just fine is the "while the train is in the station" clause...

This part of the act allows the airlines to NOT pay the cockpit and cabin crews for the 1-2 hours prior to departure that they are required to be signed in and on property.

This part of the act allows SWA (and others) to require flight attendants to clean the plane for no pay.

This part of the act allows the "pay clock" to stop the instant the door is opened at the destination.

There are a LOT of hours in the average pilot and flight attendant day that are not paid. If it weren't for the RLA, a court might become convinced that cockpit and cabin crews are covered by the Federal Wage and Hour acts that say that if you require an employee to be at work, you have to PAY that employee for his/her time.
Is it remotely possible that if airline employees had to be "paid" for every minute that they are at the airport, the rate of pay would simply be adjusted downward so the total labor expense would remain constant?

The "we are not paid for all our time" argument looks like a desire to rearrange some deck chairs.
 
HPearlyretiree said:
Pilots of today are forced to belong to a union that another generation voted in, and they are stuck with unions for the rest of their career.
You are absolutely wrong. No pilot has to belong to any union if the do not wish to. All that is needed to be done is mail in a letter telliing the union that you no longer want to be a member. Send it certified so you get a copy and your out. The kicker is that most contracts state you don't have to be a member but you still have to pay dues, although the dues you pay are only enough to cover union business and not extras such as PAC, contract negioations, etc.
 
HPearlyretiree said:
Nope, under the RLA, you can only replace one union with another, you can't decertify a union and be union free like the rest of industry. You vote in a union at an airline, there will be a union there for the life of the company.

Like I said, the union plays by the rules, because they make the rules!
Nope, under the RLA you can ATTEMPT to replace one union with another. If however that effort fails and less than 50% of the bargaining unit ends up voting in the election, neither union is certified, and there you have it-- no union. (Certainly, it is a roundabout way to go about doing it, but it IS possible.)

Or, you can resign from the union individually and become an Ellis objector.
 
FWAAA said:
Is it remotely possible that if airline employees had to be "paid" for every minute that they are at the airport, the rate of pay would simply be adjusted downward so the total labor expense would remain constant?
Remotely possible? That's exactly what would happen.
 
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