JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[WeAAsles]

If anything they would probably try to use the lus language for cc or leads meaning they are a more active part of the crew as opposed to how things generally are on the LAA side where the cc gives directions and inputs loads. I don't think a pay cut for cc is happening but having them work more on flights could be discussed. Another thing would be how at lus management can direct the workforce, I'm sure they want that too.

I think they’re past this part of the Negotiations. Although it’s controversial to speak on TA’d language “they” should be able to divulge where the language will sit in the future if we pass the JCBA if you ask around Steve?

 

[WeAAsles]

This is the first I have heard of changes to Crew Chiefs. What is being talked about here? I think if this would mean a Crew Chief paycut, AA will find itself very short on experienced Crew Chiefs. I cannot see myself voting for any TA that includes a paycut for anyone.

Wages are usually the last thing negotiated before the final product is accepted for release. And I highly doubt you’ll see any paycuts for CC/Leads.

Hopefully CC’s will get a raise? They certainly deserve one IMO.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

i agree with all:

- what is generous to the company may not be so generous to the worker contemplating taking a buyout. if buyout packages are tax write-offs for corporations, aa shouldn't waste everyone's time with ridiculous offers. $50k + $2k for every year worked, should be sufficient for those in their early 60s who really want to go. enough money to pay for medical insurance until medicare kicks in.

- the 11 year pay progression makes sense all the way around. 5 years sounds like a maximalist effort..ask for something ridiculous, agree to 11 years and then claim you compromised.

dl certainly has advantages and has done very well with nw. parker is excited about aa's future...all this underlines the hot mess that ua is. they just can't get anything right.

 

[Steve Walegir]

I think they’re past this part of the Negotiations. Although it’s controversial to speak on TA’d language “they” should be able to divulge where the language will sit in the future if we pass the JCBA if you ask around Steve?

Surprisingly this topic hasn't gotten much attention here in the big D, I'm certain they are pushing strongly for the lus lead language. If they get it DFW will need to order extra rain gear because the tears will be flowing harder then any hurricane that ever hit Miami.

 

[Kev3188]

...no one here has told us how a 2017 union can compel a fortune 500 company to sit down and hammer something out in 3 weeks.

Easy. Labor just needs to stop playing by rules it never agreed to.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

when corporate america can ghostwrite the law, including BK law...

Judge levies $45.5 million fine against American Airlines pilots' union
By Jerry White
17 April 1999
In one of the largest fines ever levied against an American trade union, US District Judge Elton "Joe" Kendall Thursday ordered the Allied Pilots Association (APA) to pay $45.5 million in damages to American Airlines for last February's sick-out by AA pilots. The massive fine--$7 million more than the APA's net worth of $38 million--is designed to effectively destroy the union representing 9,200 pilots at American Airlines.

The judge's action stems from a 10-day job action by thousands of American pilots against contract violations and the outsourcing of jobs to American's low-cost affiliate Reno Air. The sick-out, which began on February 6, quickly got out of the control of the APA leadership and crippled the country's second-largest airline, forcing American to cancel 6,000 flights and disrupt travel for 600,000 passengers. In the course of the job action, rank-and-file pilots defied Kendall's February 10 back-to-work order. Three days afterwards the judge held the union in contempt of court and ordered APA officials to pay $10 million as a down payment on a future "eight-figure" fine.

On Thursday Kendall rejected arguments from union attorneys that cancellations following his back-to-work order had only cost the airline between $1.4 million and $4.7 million. Dispensing with even the appearance of neutrality, the Texas judge backed American's claim that it had lost $50 million, saying, "American Airlines is not going to want to go to the public and the stockholders and talk about taking that kind of hit without it being true." Kendall said the $45.5 million damage award was "a conservative" estimate of the harm done to American.

The judge, appointed to the federal bench by President George Bush in 1992, also disregarded arguments by APA officials that they had done everything to get their members back to work following his temporary restraining order. Kendall indicated that he may order APA President Richard LaVoy and Vice President Brian Mayhew to pay one-third of the award personally. Last February, Kendall said the union had supposedly been taken over by a "radical element" which was "determined to fly American Airlines into the side of a mountain."

let's see what a federal judge would do to our union(s) if we believe this is 1952.

 

[WeAAsles]

Surprisingly this topic hasn't gotten much attention here in the big D, I'm certain they are pushing strongly for the lus lead language. If they get it DFW will need to order extra rain gear because the tears will be flowing harder then any hurricane that ever hit Miami.

It’s been explained to me by multiple people on this board that at least in the Hubs the LUS Leads pretty much are exactly the same as our Crew Chiefs.

 

[swamt]

This is the first I have heard of changes to Crew Chiefs. What is being talked about here? I think if this would mean a Crew Chief paycut, AA will find itself very short on experienced Crew Chiefs. I cannot see myself voting for any TA that includes a paycut for anyone.

If anything they would probably try to use the lus language for cc or leads meaning they are a more active part of the crew as opposed to how things generally are on the LAA side where the cc gives directions and inputs loads. I don't think a pay cut for cc is happening but having them work more on flights could be discussed. Another thing would be how at lus management can direct the workforce, I'm sure they want that too.

The cc and lead language has been discussed for some time now. Some are now referring to some additional language changes that will reflect more of a working leads and CC's instead of kicking back all day with feet up on desk. It will get very interesting in Dallas how the seniority integration for leads and cc's will end up going though.

 

[Jester]

It’s been explained to me by multiple people on this board that at least in the Hubs the LUS Leads pretty much are exactly the same as our Crew Chiefs.

Not sure who told you that... in PHX the leads would be responsible to setting-up the gate (including finding equipment), collecting the wands and headsets, marshalling the plane in, pushing out the plane, directly involved in the loading and unloading, servicing the plane's water along with air and power hook-ups, and the usual duties of instructing and entering the load plan.

In addition, any low-level manager could and will order ramp agents as needed and will assign work areas and staffing levels into locations, not the leads.

 

[Steve Walegir]

Not sure who told you that... in PHX the leads would be responsible to setting-up the gate (including finding equipment), collecting the wands and headsets, marshalling the plane in, pushing out the plane, directly involved in the loading and unloading, servicing the plane's water along with air and power hook-ups, and the usual duties of instructing and entering the load plan.

In addition, any low-level manager could and will order ramp agents as needed and will assign work areas and staffing levels into locations, not the leads.

That's what I was told too. Also I spoke to an IAM guy on a flight out of phx a few months back and he verified it, also said that leads tend to be junior employees because of the extra work. Btw I worked in phx for 15 years, go give the LAA guys a good ribbing and say it was from me

 

[WeAAsles]

Not sure who told you that... in PHX the leads would be responsible to setting-up the gate (including finding equipment), collecting the wands and headsets, marshalling the plane in, pushing out the plane, directly involved in the loading and unloading, servicing the plane's water along with air and power hook-ups, and the usual duties of instructing and entering the load plan.

In addition, any low-level manager could and will order ramp agents as needed and will assign work areas and staffing levels into locations, not the leads.

I think it was cltrat who said it? But then again he’s in CLT and you’re in PHX. You yourself I believe have stated many times that PHX is a pretty weak Station as far as standing up for itself.

And I don’t blame any Union or their Reps for that if true. You either have the stones, learn to have stones or enjoy the shaft every time you’re told to bend over.

BTW Jester some of those items you mentioned our CC’s also do. Some. Aren’t many CC left who just sit on their tushys barking orders and playing Candy Crush. The ones left who do aren’t very well liked or respected and their reputation does proceed them.

 

[AANOTOK]

Not sure who told you that... in PHX the leads would be responsible to setting-up the gate (including finding equipment), collecting the wands and headsets, marshalling the plane in, pushing out the plane, directly involved in the loading and unloading, servicing the plane's water along with air and power hook-ups, and the usual duties of instructing and entering the load plan.

In addition, any low-level manager could and will order ramp agents as needed and will assign work areas and staffing levels into locations, not the leads.

Hate to say it, but many of you in Dallas know it's true, some of our least productive CC's are Union reps who do absolutely nothing. Not broad brushing or labeling them all, but it is a fact. Having said that, the ones who do know and do their job properly know how to get the job done while knowing every in and out of the contract. Management seems to stay away from those gates.

 

[AANOTOK]

UB ring a bell...lol

 

[swamt]

Hate to say it, but many of you in Dallas know it's true, some of our least productive CC's are Union reps who do absolutely nothing. Not broad brushing or labeling them all, but it is a fact. Having said that, the ones who do know and do their job properly know how to get the job done while knowing every in and out of the contract. Management seems to stay away from those gates.

Yes I know one personally with over at or over 30 years (that's why I use the 30 years man when comparing) in Dallas and we exchange work stories all the time, stop fooling yourselves. Feet up most of the shifts in Dallas, I even have received pictures from him. He also told me mechanics pick up work card from lead at booth and that's his job for the day.

 

[WeAAsles]

Hate to say it, but many of you in Dallas know it's true, some of our least productive CC's are Union reps who do absolutely nothing. Not broad brushing or labeling them all, but it is a fact. Having said that, the ones who do know and do their job properly know how to get the job done while knowing every in and out of the contract. Management seems to stay away from those gates.

Lazy CC’s were lazy clerks and are lazy people in life also. I also don’t want lazy reps defending me cause I know they’ll cut corners and I won’t get my money’s worth out of that guy.

It’s an ethics issue.