JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Not hard at all for me to understand actually. My good long time friend Dan works for an Aircraft Engine leasing Company and works all sorts of insane hours. Not to mention having to fly all over the World. For that with total Compensation he makes in the $150,000 per year range.

But talking to him in all honesty for what it’s worth I would have zero interest in trading jobs with him. The money is not worth (to me) all the incredible stress he has in his life. And his Boss is completely nuts.

And our other buddy Fred works for True Green lawn service making $15 per hour and has a truck with no Air Conditioning. (College Degree too BTW) And no Union. He sprays pesticides on bushes and shrubs (Total scam BTW) But at least he earns some pay I guess.

Sounds like Fred make some bad life decisions.

Sounds like another person with a liberal arts degree. Probably gender studies.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I have no political motivations.

I laughed so hard I nearly fell out of my chair. I really did.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Sounds like your friend Dan has chosen one commodity (money) over another (time). For me personally, life's too short for that.

The idea that working "insane hours" is somehow a virtue is just absurd.

You know what?

You might be on to something.

 

[WeAAsles]

I have no political motivations. I am an informed member. I will tell you this, I have been involved with union negotiations not ours and it was for fire and police unions.
The only assumption made above was sito being in bed with parker.

I don’t know anything about Sito honestly.

Samuelsen himself admitted basically what you said. Exactly why he didn’t step on any toes joining JCBA talks. But he does have ears and listens to people.

Now Garcia has a pretty decent resume at AA and with the TWU. Not sure he would have gotten as far as he has by being clueless wouldn’t you think.

Peterson no clue if he’s tried to become a Manager or not or how many times he may have run around trying? I will say though I met the man here during the MIA protests and actually talked to him for about a half hour in between the two. He impressed me. He was intelligent, articulate and had a good knowledge of issues IMO. And most of his videos have impressed me as well. (At least he gets more meat and potatoes out to us)

I’m sure the TWU has people who cost out items. Although that’s probably more of a Company concern since they’re the ones paying us. But no I haven’t heard of any Lawyers or Economists being there directly through the process. But I was told Lawyers are a phone call away.

At the end of the day the only thing that’s going to prove what worth our Negotiators have though will be the finished product we have to vote on. Everything else is just a bunch of Pfft.

 

[737823]

Weez Sito is a TWA mechanic and runs the IAM Transport department. Bob worked with in the 1980s at Capitol air before Bob came to AA and Sito TW:

Ozark got DOH because AMFA would not back down from their contract, unlike the IAM who did in order to make the deal go through.

If the IAM wasnt more concerned about the money that TWA owed them instead of their members then the TWA guys could have blocked the deal from going through until the company convinced the TWU to dovetail, which they no doubt would have(there is no way the TWU would have passed on the opportunity to pick up 7000 new dues payers).

I attended the first integration meeting, there I met Ed LaClaire and Sito Pantoja, two reps from the IAM who addressed the integration meeting. They told us that we should dovetail due to AFL-CIO affiliation. They told us that they backed down from the contract because TWA owed the IAM back payments towards the IAM pension fund and lease payments on a engine that the IAM owned. TWA threatened that if they didnt back down they would liquidate and the IAM would lose a lot of money. If I recall the figure was quite high.

I had worked with Sito in the early eighties at Capitol Air and we went out to eat after the meeting. I told him that the TWU had decided to have a vote among the members as to what they would do and of course the members would vote to staple. When AA aquired other carriers such as Trans Carib,Air Cal and Reno Air the TWU never allowed the members a choice, but the TWU wanted to have the combined membership blame each other instead of the International. It was a logical move. If the TWU had said "dovetail" as they did with TransCarib and Air Cal, it would have pissed off most of the 35,000 AA members, most of whom dont care too much for the TWU anyway, if they would have said staple like they did with Reno it would have pissed off the 7000 TWA members and probably given AMFA the vote. By putting forth a phony vote that had no real authority the TWU got to sit back and tell the TWA guys that "its not our fault, this is what the members decided and we are a democratic organization". They got to collect even more dues while promoting division, which has been their strategy for over 50 years at AA.

You two keep bickering about something where even if we could change it it would not help us pay our bills, which is the main reason why we go to work in the first place. The path you two are taking is exactly what the TWU and AA were banking on. Lets try and fight to make this job something worth fighting for by getting rid of the TWU and putting in a union that will try and unite us instead of divide us into 21 powerless locals, a union for all airline workers.

Josh

 

[WeAAsles]

Weez Sito is a TWA mechanic and runs the IAM Transport department. Bob worked with in the 1980s at Capitol air before Bob came to AA and Sito TW:



Josh

To be more specific. I don’t know and have never spoken to the man “personally”

I have read his bio.

 

[737823]

To be more specific. I don’t know and have never spoken to the man “personally”

I have read his bio.

Weez do you really want to get to know him? You say you aren’t a people person...why not just get an opinion on him from one the MIA LLCers?

Heck I offered to meet you dozen times over the years and you don’t want to, why do you need to “speak” to Sito?

Bob says he’s a good union guy but Bob has posted repeatedly on here that Sito followed the IAM line when it came to TWA integration yet still wanted TWU to honor their DOH. Why waive the language and then ask another union to honor it?

Josh

 

[swamt]

You know what?

You might be on to something.

He is, and it's great. You should try it, I did and love it, never looking back now...

 

[pjirish317]

Despite what others have said, there seems little chance we don't all end up with the same medical we currently have in LAA. There would need to be a value attached to that and the IAM would try to maximize that amount. That is a better prospect outside of the Section 6 process, and it may be what the representative from the NMB is telling or will be telling the NC. (there is a reason they were invited)

I fully believe the NC would not agree to anything that they feel is detrimental, but the EC is who makes the decisions once they took over.

NYer,

Please tell me why "there seems little chance we don't all end up with the same medical we currently have in LAA"? Why do you have that defeatest attitude towards the medical? I just don't understand it. And you are only partially correct as to how the NC and EC make decisions towards the negotioations. The EC brings back the proposals, and the actual NC goes over them, and then the NC not the EC will vote whether or not to bring a JCBA out for a vote.

 

[pjirish317]

In seeing what may be attainable and what will prolong negotiations we need to compare what has happened within the industry. In doing so, if we see a move by most towards a certain threshold we can anticipate our Company will try to move towards that same finish line. In the case of Scope, the industry has moved further from the TWU language, which is miles from the IAM language. Is it feasible to keep the language the IAM or even the TWU has? Maybe, but then it would be improbable we could also get a favorable outcome in the Medical area with the probability being the LAA medical becoming universal to all LAA employees.

However, for the Company to get that language, it may allow us to get a more favorable agreement on Scope. Highly improbable to get both and that being the case, this is the time to play one against the other. In mediation, that prospect becomes more difficult because of the inclusion of the Mediator in the process.

Knowing this, would we try to get the best we can now or move into a process that is not favorable and takes a little control away from us. We will see what the choice will be.

NYer,
Typical "we live to fight another day", "we will get them next time", lay down and roll over defeatest attitude. Why? Why are you so eager to just take the scraps that the company wants to offer us? Especially since this company will "never lose money again", and we just had a billion dollar plus quarter.

 

[737823]

NYer,
Typical "we live to fight another day", "we will get them next time", lay down and roll over defeatest attitude. Why? Why are you so eager to just take the scraps that the company wants to offer us? Especially since this company will "never lose money again", and we just had a billion dollar plus quarter.

The IAM has never met a concession they didn’t like and ultimately help the company attain.

The IAM conditioned the TWA workers to be Vote Yes Concessionistas and had TWA not been on the property the RPA would have failed.

Look at the Boeing vote a few years ago. Look at the pathetic agreements they have at UAL, UGE, and McGee today.

Josh

 

[swamt]

NYer,

Please tell me why "there seems little chance we don't all end up with the same medical we currently have in LAA"? Why do you have that defeatest attitude towards the medical? I just don't understand it. And you are only partially correct as to how the NC and EC make decisions towards the negotioations. The EC brings back the proposals, and the actual NC goes over them, and then the NC not the EC will vote whether or not to bring a JCBA out for a vote.

I would like to add something about this medical issue. In this forum, myself and Charlie Brown were in a discussion about which medical they were trying to obtain at the table. The reason this convo. came up was because some rumors were flying that the NC was agreeing to drop the IAM medical and go with the LAA medical. Charlie Brown (he is on the NC and at the table) came in and answered my question and said; They are not just dropping the IAM medical and going with the LAA medical. He did relay that they were taking the LAA medical and making better adjustments and increases with it. In other words it told me that they were trying to come up with a medical plan that would end up somewhere in the middle of the two existing medicals at each carrier. So maybe it will end up as LAA plus advancements as well as LUS with decreases added in, somewhere in the middle. You can search the fleet thread for it but he did call out what they were trying to achieve at the table with the medical issues. FYI...

 

[WeAAsles]

Weez do you really want to get to know him? You say you aren’t a people person...why not just get an opinion on him from one the MIA LLCers?

Heck I offered to meet you dozen times over the years and you don’t want to, why do you need to “speak” to Sito?

Bob says he’s a good union guy but Bob has posted repeatedly on here that Sito followed the IAM line when it came to TWA integration yet still wanted TWU to honor their DOH. Why waive the language and then ask another union to honor it?

Josh

When did I ever say I needed to speak with him? And why honestly would I want to meet you? You say you’re a Banker who’s not even part of our industry. If true (Of course I dont buy it anyway) what purpose for me is there in meeting you Sir?

Is there any way that you could actually affect my life here at American?

 

[737823]

To be more specific. I don’t know and have never spoken to the man “personally”

I have read his bio.

When did I ever say I needed to speak with him? And why honestly would I want to meet you? You say you’re a Banker who’s not even part of our industry. If true (Of course I dont buy it anyway) what purpose for me is there in meeting you Sir?

Is there any way that you could actually affect my life here at American?

You above stated you hadn’t met or spoken to him and indicted a desire to meet or have a conversation with him before passing judgement.

And banking/banker is a very wide and loosely defined field with different meanings in different contexts, regions, etc.

I have no affect on you WeAA but I do fly AA MIA often.

I refuse to travel from FLL so if you transfer there I truly won’t be of any relevance or consequence however little and remote I may be now.

Besides transferring to FLL will mean more time on your feet and working at an outstation. Plus no widebody activity or KLoaders aside from a possible diversion.

Josh

 

[WeAAsles]

You above stated you hadn’t met or spoken to him and indicted a desire to meet or have a conversation with him before passing judgement.

And banking/banker is a very wide and loosely defined field with different meanings in different contexts, regions, etc.

I have no affect on you WeAA but I do fly AA MIA often.

I refuse to travel from FLL so if you transfer there I truly won’t be of any relevance or consequence however little and remote I may be now.

Besides transferring to FLL will mean more time on your feet and working at an outstation. Plus no widebody activity or KLoaders aside from a possible diversion.

Josh

Nothing personal to Brother Pantoja but no desire. If I did have a need though, with a will there’s always a way. Haven’t had the “need”

The rest of what you wrote is kind of weird and obsessive.