JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[NYer]

NYer,

If we are stalled long enough to go into Section 6, in my opinion, each side should negotiate their CBA's seperately. Thus putting more pressure on the company to get a JCBA done. So I disagree with your statement, additionally the NMB is supposed to be neutral, not favoring either side, so in my opinion, that is irrevelant. And you do understand, that when section 6 negotiations do start, you are not autmatically put into mediation. That has to happen when both sides declare an impass. So why not play the waiting game. Why wouldn't LAA want the LUS medical plan? Or the LUS scope. Or, and I am not familiar with your CBA, but I am sure there is language that is superior to ours in certain area's. So why are we just "accepting an offer just to get it done"? We should hold out for the very best, or at the very least, something that is not concessionary in any way. Why are you just rolling over about the medical? Both sides could gain more leverage by threatening to go into section 6 seperately.

Each side can't negotiate their own CBA, it would need to be a JCBA.

The NMB is not irrelevant. They control the process and if it isn't going to their liking they can shut things down for an extended period of time or employ other tactics to get a resolution.

Since the NMB is already privy to the issues and the negotiations, they could allow a quicker path to mediation by declaring an impasse sooner than they typically do. There is a reason they are there and it isn't just to take up space.

For the IAM, playing the waiting game is the way to go. On the TWU side, waiting is not really preferred because of things like having fewer holidays, not double-time and other items. However, one of the bigger issues is that we have protections for some of our smaller cities that expires the day before the current CBA becomes amendable. That could allow the Company to close another 3 stations and possibly 4.

 

[WeAAsles]

Calling BS on that right here. No way would the IAM have reached 50% and you know it.

And with the first part of your post, you make my point exactly why the IAM should have stepped aside.

No. The IAM should not have just stepped aside for the sake of expediency or because of some very stupid NMB rules pushed by Lobbyists for Corporations who HATE Unions.

But the TWU and IAM should absolutely have let us all vote on this Association. That's an absolute and they didn't because people's political positions were more important than the members they pretend come first.

 

[NYer]

NYer,

If we are stalled long enough to go into Section 6, in my opinion, each side should negotiate their CBA's seperately. Thus putting more pressure on the company to get a JCBA done. So I disagree with your statement, additionally the NMB is supposed to be neutral, not favoring either side, so in my opinion, that is irrevelant. And you do understand, that when section 6 negotiations do start, you are not autmatically put into mediation. That has to happen when both sides declare an impass. So why not play the waiting game. Why wouldn't LAA want the LUS medical plan? Or the LUS scope. Or, and I am not familiar with your CBA, but I am sure there is language that is superior to ours in certain area's. So why are we just "accepting an offer just to get it done"? We should hold out for the very best, or at the very least, something that is not concessionary in any way. Why are you just rolling over about the medical? Both sides could gain more leverage by threatening to go into section 6 seperately.

The medical will be very difficult to keep and I understand why everyone at the IAM would want to keep it. Everyone at the TWU would be doing the same thing and would also be advocating to just keep what we have if the alternative is to lose it.

If there is one item that is a "must have" for the Company, it would be the IAM medical. That is an item that would also be hard-pressed to make it through a mediation process. After seeing the emphasis the Company placed on getting everyone into the LAA medical plans, during the BK, it seems highly unlikely they would allow an outlier to remain.

I agree that we shouldn't be speeding towards a deal, but we aren't being kept up to date with the challenges being faced by the NC and that void of information is creating extra frustrations for a process that seems straightforward when seen from the outside.

I understand the IAM position and they certainly have more to lose than the TWU, at this point, but it doesn't help that the Association is not sufficiently educating either side as to the challenges we face collectively.

 

[NYer]

Calling BS on that right here. No way would the IAM have reached 50% and you know it.

And with the first part of your post, you make my point exactly why the IAM should have stepped aside.

Disagree. If the IAM would have made a hard pressed effort they may have been able to get enough cards signed to reach the 50%. Their arguments of a cheaper medical and a pension could have been enough to get the necessary cards. Whether you agree if they could have met that threshold is a different matter. The point is that they were trying, the other unions had a substantially tougher road to get to the 50%.

 

[psa8979]

To ALL ! You want to push AAL/DP for a JCBA and get IAM/TWU Union Members WOKE ! Push for amalgamation/merger, IAMATWU . My bet is that it's in-evitable and will be the end result of the formation of the Ass. by Trumpka / AFL-CIO ? Information picketing with the the apathy of the Flying Public , Membership, and Leadership is a waste of time $$$. As AH would quote , No Value ! However, if we could legally go on STRIKE ! that would work. But those dreams ended with the 2016 election results . Looks to me like a IMPASSE until 2018 ? Possibly 3rd quarter 2017 ? COVFEFE On !

 

[WeAAsles]

Each side can't negotiate their own CBA, it would need to be a JCBA.

Oh brother, SMH.

 

[WeAAsles]

To ALL ! You want to push AAL/DP for a JCBA and get IAM/TWU Union Members WOKE ! Push for amalgamation/merger, IAMATWU . My bet is that it's in-evitable and will be the end result of the formation of the Ass. by Trumpka / AFL-CIO ? Information picketing with the the apathy of the Flying Public , Membership, and Leadership is a waste of time $$$. As AH would quote , No Value ! However, if we could legally go on STRIKE ! that would work. But those dreams ended with the 2016 election results . Looks to me like a IMPASSE until 2018 ? Possibly 3rd quarter 2017 ? COVFEFE On !

TWU is not going to merge or be absorbed by the IAM.

The last International President of the TWU already tried piecing out our Union to multiple other Unions and that's the reason he's gone now. (Along with other cronies)

 

[WeAAsles]

The medical will be very difficult to keep and I understand why everyone at the IAM would want to keep it. Everyone at the TWU would be doing the same thing and would also be advocating to just keep what we have if the alternative is to lose it.

If there is one item that is a "must have" for the Company, it would be the IAM medical. That is an item that would also be hard-pressed to make it through a mediation process. After seeing the emphasis the Company placed on getting everyone into the LAA medical plans, during the BK, it seems highly unlikely they would allow an outlier to remain.

I agree that we shouldn't be speeding towards a deal, but we aren't being kept up to date with the challenges being faced by the NC and that void of information is creating extra frustrations for a process that seems straightforward when seen from the outside.

I understand the IAM position and they certainly have more to lose than the TWU, at this point, but it doesn't help that the Association is not sufficiently educating either side as to the challenges we face collectively.

Wrong.

 

[Traymark]

I agree that we shouldn't be speeding towards a deal, but we aren't being kept up to date with the challenges being faced by the NC and that void of information is creating extra frustrations for a process that seems straightforward when seen from the outside.

1. Last time I checked , we weren't "speeding" towards anything.
2. What you really mean is, the NC won't tell us the IAM (more specifically Sito) is insisting on all of LAA in the IAMPF and yes, the TWU is pushing back.

There can be no other reason this isn't completed yet.

 

[WeAAsles]

There can be no other reason this isn't completed yet.

Traymark you do know I hope that it's American Airlines (The Company) who ultimately either agrees or disagrees to items in our contract that cost money.

The Airline (Business) is what generates the revenue to provide employees pay and benefits.

Not any Collective Bargaining Agent (Union)

 

[anotherdelay]

the whole association was about the iampf, and still is about the iampf. In the end not only will the iampf, die a certain death, but that black hole, will probably end up taking the whole of both memberships with it.

that said, i support another year of doing nothing because, cltrat got it right, on his last post. On the fleet side, we're doing fine everywhere, I don't believe in jealousy or envy, a common theme amongst a lof of rampers is they can finally pay there bills.

Trunka disembowled twu over the pension, and his belief in too many unions. I believe iam is a very corrupt union, and not very well run, and doesn't represent their membership. twu aa, is inept because its divided itself. line vs overhaul, and ramp vs mx.

disagree with Tim, there's no way in a jcba, there's not give backs with the comparables of the united/continental contracts, and the differences in laa, and lus ramp structures. No way catering or iam medical survives. I believe cargo survives, at the hubs.

There will never be unity, because there is no way in good faith, I will ever support the iampf, and neither will any due diligence. Prez is making over 125k most overpaid position in the World. Not his fault on that , good for him, but that and the iampf sheesh. F the Iam, and its current structure.

The iampf and prez's salary is all things that is wrong with labor right now. that pension compromises full time, and work rules. You guys got lucky, you had a compentent member on healthcare, but the 15 dollars an hour was the biggest reason why you had that.

 

[AANOTOK]

I have talked to a few who say they are in the know, one is fore sure. If they are being honest, the IAM is NOT insisting that LAA be forced into the IAMPF, but they are wanting it to be an option. Was also told that if you do elect to join their pension you would not get any increase in your 401k. Will you maintain the 5.5 match, it wasn't clear, but and increase up to (let's say 10%) would not be offered to you.

 

[anotherdelay]

Each side can't negotiate their own CBA, it would need to be a JCBA.

The NMB is not irrelevant. They control the process and if it isn't going to their liking they can shut things down for an extended period of time or employ other tactics to get a resolution.

Since the NMB is already privy to the issues and the negotiations, they could allow a quicker path to mediation by declaring an impasse sooner than they typically do. There is a reason they are there and it isn't just to take up space.

the IAM, playing the waiting game is the way to go. On the TWU side, waiting is not really preferred because of things like having fewer holidays, not double-time and other items. However, one of the bigger issues is that we have protections for some of our smaller cities that expires the day before the current CBA becomes amendable. That could allow the Company to close another 3 stations and possibly 4.

Yup, that waiting game protects their salaries, and their officer pensions.

Yup, that waiting game protects their salaries, and their officer pensions.

 

[anotherdelay]

I have talked to a few who say they are in the know, one is fore sure. If they are being honest, the IAM is NOT insisting that LAA be forced into the IAMPF, but they are wanting it to be an option. Was also told that if you do elect to join their pension you would not get any increase in your 401k. Will you maintain the 5.5 match, it wasn't clear, but and increase up to (let's say 10%) would not be offered to you.

the people you talk to aren't in the know. They can come out right now, and tell all of us what their goal to the membership in writing, what they expect from laa, and its present membership regarding the iampf choice. Nothing is stopping them. Why not give iam members the choice to opt out and join a 401k match and contribution? They do that, and maybe this contract can be resolved in 15 minutes on the fleet side.

 

[NYer]

1. Last time I checked , we weren't "speeding" towards anything.
2. What you really mean is, the NC won't tell us the IAM (more specifically Sito) is insisting on all of LAA in the IAMPF and yes, the TWU is pushing back.

There can be no other reason this isn't completed yet.

There are many reasons this isn't being completed.

One of the biggest is having to meld two sets of languages into one, not to mention trying to fit two sets of cultures into one.

The fact were not getting a comprehensive account of what is happening or what is being faced only heightens speculation.

Once a JCBA comes back most of these pages will be filled with calls for the NC to take it back and keep working. That sentiment will become apparent once the language is released.

If we knew now what we'll know then, there would be much more support of the process and the NC and we may have been able to reach the finish line quicker.