JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[charlie Brown]

The IAM medical is a straw man. The LAA medical is not bad and btw, the entire rest of the company is on it.
This is not hard, you get something from the company for getting everyone on the LAA medical, i.e.... a much better 401K Contribution, like the pilots and Flight Attendants got and move forward.
Value is value, it doesn't matter where it is with each line item.
The LUS medical was only the what is was because they were $10 per hour below the rest of the industry in pay, that has now ended.

Traymark
I disagree completely on the insurance. You are talking about a difference of 500.00 a month for a person who has to have family coverage.
And yes LUS was getting paid much less back then, but this insurance also survived 2 bankruptcies as the fifth largest carrier in the world when no profits were being made. Why can't the company do at least as good as our current LUS 80% for members now that they are making billions? The answer is they can. And hopefully you know since a airline contract never expires, the LUS side now has this insurance while getting paid leading industry wages. Getting them to vote on an agreement that's going to cost all of them something, but for some that needs family coverage up to 6,000 a year isn't going to go over on the LUS side. Especially paying that much more for a Insurance that once you start to use it,, is much worse than their current policy. Ex: an emergency room visit, cost our members 100 bucks. That's it.
Now add to the fact that the company wants to eliminate work in some of our stations, all for about .30 cents more a hour for a top out agent, just isn't gonna get it done.

 

[charlie Brown]

100% agree NY, the communication has been awful. I realize confidentiality but there is still a obligation to make sure the membership is properly informed. I personally am made to feel like I'm not responsible enough to know what is going on, like a parent keeping information from their child because they aren't old enough to understand. We are all adults and the person negotiating today could have been by belly partner 6 months ago, just because they won a local election doesn't make them smarter or more trustworthy with information. You say "Most on the TWU side will be surprised at the changes to language they believe was perfectly fine, like OT, PT and others. If those expectations aren't set before the language is settled and a TA is reached, the current frustration will just continue to grow and eventually boil over.", sorry I wouldn't know because we haven't been cc'ed in on those talks

Thanks for your support. And yes we are fighting hard on the IAM side anyway to keep our insurance. This is not a knock on the twu, but as you can read by some of their post on here, insurance is not a huge deal to most of them because they already have the crappy insurance. The negotiators for the twu knows this. So while they will tell you they would love to have the IAM insurance, it's not going to be a issue that they would not consider giving up.
As far as info picketing, all I can say is like I posted on a post earlier. There are differences of opinion on if and when picketing should be being done. And if it's beneficial or detrimental to talks at this time.

 

[Steve Walegir]

Thanks for your support. And yes we are fighting hard on the IAM side anyway to keep our insurance. This is not a knock on the twu, but as you can read by some of their post on here, insurance is not a huge deal to most of them because they already have the crappy insurance. The negotiators for the twu knows this. So while they will tell you they would love to have the IAM insurance, it's not going to be a issue that they would not consider giving up.
As far as info picketing, all I can say is like I posted on a post earlier. There are differences of opinion on if and when picketing should be being done. And if it's beneficial or detrimental to talks at this time.

The fact that things are taking as long as they are leads me to believe if I or we can tick them off then please tick them off. They really don't care about us. I'd like your insurance, so would everyone else I've asked, the problem seems to be that we haven't (at least on the twu side) been told if we are asking for it or are willing to fight for it. Before anyone jumps in, yes I know everyone else has the LAA insurance, I've lived with it for years, but if the association came out publicly and said they 100% want the LUS IAM insurance then I'd support the timeframe it takes to get it. If the association is not going for it I feel they should say that as well. One unified voice speaking for everyone. You make an excellent point " Ex: an emergency room visit, cost our members 100 bucks. That's it". I've argued with bcbs for over a year about that. My insurance card doesn't mention the additional costs, they are in very small print on the website. I would like your medical and am willing to wait, march or do whatever asked to do to achieve it, but I need the association to officially say something.

On a side note. I worked in Phoenix from 91-05, go easy on my guys who went back, well go easy on some of them, stick it to the others

 

[charlie Brown]

The fact that things are taking as long as they are leads me to believe if I or we can tick them off then please tick them off. They really don't care about us. I'd like your insurance, so would everyone else I've asked, the problem seems to be that we haven't (at least on the twu side) been told if we are asking for it or are willing to fight for it. Before anyone jumps in, yes I know everyone else has the LAA insurance, I've lived with it for years, but if the association came out publicly and said they 100% want the LUS IAM insurance then I'd support the timeframe it takes to get it. If the association is not going for it I feel they should say that as well. One unified voice speaking for everyone. You make an excellent point " Ex: an emergency room visit, cost our members 100 bucks. That's it". I've argued with bcbs for over a year about that. My insurance card doesn't mention the additional costs, they are in very small print on the website. I would like your medical and am willing to wait, march or do whatever asked to do to achieve it, but I need the association to officially say something.

On a side note. I worked in Phoenix from 91-05, go easy on my guys who went back, well go easy on some of them, stick it to the others

Lol. That's PRez that's in Phx, I'm out of Clt. And the association is fighting to do something with the insurance I can assure you. What that will be? I can't say at this point. But it's gotta be something other than the current LAA insurance.

 

[NYer]

I can only explain it this way. Take the overtime article for instance. Once the IAM and TWU groups hash it out about a particular article, and some articles take a very long time to do that. But once the association comes together and agree with way your going, you then present it to the company and the company gives a proposal of just the opposite back to you. Like where we would adopt the twu language, the company would want to adopt IAM. And where we would want to adopt the IAM, the company would go twu language. Well then it basically puts the IAM and twu back to square one in what each side must have and what we can achieve from the company. This can be, and obviously has been very time consuming. It's basically two sets of negotiatiins going on at one time. The association negotiates among the two sides first, then once you've reached an agreement with the two sides, you then have to go through the company.

Completely agree. That is why some of us were against the TWU not joining the IAM, as invited, in November of 2014 to get ahead on the reconciliation of both CBA's. As it stood, that process didn't start until June of 2015 with both sides nor being ready until December of 2015. Lots of lost time and opportunity.

What you may explained is what I've been trying to get others on these pages to understand and it is the reason I've always believed and expected this to be a long process.

All this should have been explained to the Members so they could set a more realistic expectation of this process.

 

[Steve Walegir]

Lol. That's PRez that's in Phx, I'm out of Clt. And the association is fighting to do something with the insurance I can assure you. What that will be? I can't say at this point. But it's gotta be something other than the current LAA insurance.

Ooops, sorry. My bad. Go easy on them P.Prez

I hope change is coming on the medical issue. Hopefully a public stance is made to clear up the over saturated rumors running rampant. The sharing of information is the key to a supportive membership

 

[NYer]

100% agree NY, the communication has been awful. I realize confidentiality but there is still a obligation to make sure the membership is properly informed. I personally am made to feel like I'm not responsible enough to know what is going on, like a parent keeping information from their child because they aren't old enough to understand. We are all adults and the person negotiating today could have been by belly partner 6 months ago, just because they won a local election doesn't make them smarter or more trustworthy with information. You say "Most on the TWU side will be surprised at the changes to language they believe was perfectly fine, like OT, PT and others. If those expectations aren't set before the language is settled and a TA is reached, the current frustration will just continue to grow and eventually boil over.", sorry I wouldn't know because we haven't been cc'ed in on those talks

That's the point, we haven't been prepared for the enormous changes to come. As far as most are concerned these talks are about holidays, sick time and the like. Without further information from the Association, the assumption is the TWU will keep the language we currently have because the feeling is that it's generally better than the alternative.

When the smoke settles the changes will be a shock to most simply because they'd be unexpected.

 

[charlie Brown]

Completely agree. That is why some of us were against the TWU not joining the IAM, as invited, in November of 2014 to get ahead on the reconciliation of both CBA's. As it stood, that process didn't start until June of 2015 with both sides nor being ready until December of 2015. Lots of lost time and opportunity.

What you may explained is what I've been trying to get others on these pages to understand and it is the reason I've always believed and expected this to be a long process.

All this should have been explained to the Members so they could set a more realistic expectation of

NYer
Lack of communications is always frustrating. I can only tell you that I and several others do everything we can to answer questions. I have even told people they are welcome to message me on here and I will be glad to give my cell number. Many of us also brief break rooms as much as possible and send out email briefs. But I understand about the frustrations of the lack of education and communications to the membership.

 

[charlie Brown]

Completely agree. That is why some of us were against the TWU not joining the IAM, as invited, in November of 2014 to get ahead on the reconciliation of both CBA's. As it stood, that process didn't start until June of 2015 with both sides nor being ready until December of 2015. Lots of lost time and opportunity.

What you may explained is what I've been trying to get others on these pages to understand and it is the reason I've always believed and expected this to be a long process.

All this should have been explained to the Members so they could set a more realistic expectation of this process.

Nyer
I know the frustrations. I have offered for people to message me on here and offered my cell. Many of us brief break rooms as much as possible and send email briefs. But I understand the lack of educating and communicating with the membership.

 

[Steve Walegir]

Completely agree. That is why some of us were against the TWU not joining the IAM, as invited, in November of 2014 to get ahead on the reconciliation of both CBA's. As it stood, that process didn't start until June of 2015 with both sides nor being ready until December of 2015. Lots of lost time and opportunity.

What you may explained is what I've been trying to get others on these pages to understand and it is the reason I've always believed and expected this to be a long process.

All this should have been explained to the Members so they could set a more realistic expectation of this process.

Not joining in on talks in 2014 was mistake #1. In an industry where profits and good times can change in the blink of an eye by factors beyond our control we can not afford mistakes. Dougie can say we will never lose money ever again ( must have gone to the George Bush school of read my lips) but this could be a once in a career opportunity to actually get an industry leading contract. Mistakes need to be avoided. God forbid another group of determined people in a cave somewhere in the world are successful once again.

 

[charlie Brown]

That's the point, we haven't been prepared for the enormous changes to come. As far as most are concerned these talks are about holidays, sick time and the like. Without further information from the Association, the assumption is the TWU will keep the language we currently have because the feeling is that it's generally better than the alternative.

When the smoke settles the changes will be a shock to most simply because they'd be unexpected.

There is going to be big language changes for both sides. Can't bring two contracts together without changing a lot of the language one way or another. But it's going to be on both sides. Explaining this t/a to the membership prior to a vote, is going to be huge.

 

[Steve Walegir]

There is going to be big language changes for both sides. Can't bring two contracts together without changing a lot of the language one way or another. But it's going to be on both sides. Explaining this t/a to the membership prior to a vote, is going to be huge.

Would it be possible for the association to begin preparing videos now explaining in depth the changes on articles already agreed on, they can provide side by side comparisons and the resulting new language. So when a full TA is reached they can release the videos as a complement to the roadshows required to inform the members. We could go to roadshows then access videos at home later. Just a thought

 

[Steve Walegir]

That's the point, we haven't been prepared for the enormous changes to come. As far as most are concerned these talks are about holidays, sick time and the like. Without further information from the Association, the assumption is the TWU will keep the language we currently have because the feeling is that it's generally better than the alternative.

When the smoke settles the changes will be a shock to most simply because they'd be unexpected.

Oh I can't wait for that. From Facebook to Airline Forums to Breakrooms it's gonna be ugly.

 

[charlie Brown]

Would it be possible for the association to begin preparing videos now explaining in depth the changes on articles already agreed on, they can provide side by side comparisons and the resulting new language. So when a full TA is reached they can release the videos as a complement to the roadshows required to inform the members. We could go to roadshows then access videos at home later. Just a thought

I would assume those will come at some point. But I wouldn't believe it would now, just because things are always subject to change even on the articles that have a t/a by them.

 

[NYer]

Not joining in on talks in 2014 was mistake #1. In an industry where profits and good times can change in the blink of an eye by factors beyond our control we can not afford mistakes. Dougie can say we will never lose money ever again ( must have gone to the George Bush school of read my lips) but this could be a once in a career opportunity to actually get an industry leading contract. Mistakes need to be avoided. God forbid another group of determined people in a cave somewhere in the world are successful once again.

Those comments by Parker are meant for Wall Street, analysts and stockholders.

Negotiations are based on the industry comparisons and that's a measure few consider or use as a harbinger of what the airline will seek and what the unions can achieve. If we see what's happening at other airlines then we can better gauge what will happen here.

I'm sure you remember the glee when the UA contract was signed because it brought wages to over $25 an hour, at the time. Few dug further to see the changes in their medical and scope, which took a step back. We focus on the compensation and the airlines will focus on those steps back to maintain the same expense level for Labor.